Backup Strategy for physical and VM's

[T35216]

Hi,

Due to various issues with the AVVI agent, I am attempting to develop a backup strategy for a customer that will accomodate restores in a timely manner.  The customer backs up to tape and duplicates to a Deduplication storage folder, they perform full and differential backups using the AVVI agent for their VM's.

The reasons for this are many and among them are this issue highlighted in the following technote

My intention is to run a full AVVI backup of the VM with GRT for file and folder level only at the weekend and subsequently run (non AVVI) remote agent differential backups of the VM's during the week.  My question is will the full AVVI job reset the archive bit inside the VM's?

 Thanks to all in advance for your help

[Carlos_Quiroga]

I believe you are referring to the Archive file bit mark in Windows. This would be a proporty of files INSIDE the virtual machine, and not for the virtual machine disks inside the VMWare host.

So you will have to select resources (files and folders) from each virtual machine using the Windows Systems or the Active Directory domain nodes, as if the machines were physical, and not virtual. This will backup the files and folders and make the corresponding mark to them in the Windows file system.

If you use the VMWare node to back up the complete virtual machines (the vmdk files) this will not affect any archive bits. Even if you enable GRT options, those apply to Active Directory, Exchange, and SQL Server resources inside the virtuals, not files and folders.

Regards,

[Kiran_Bandi]

My question is will the full AVVI job reset the archive bit inside the VM's?

I think yes, as you are enabling GRT.

And the TN you mentiones also suggests, run Full and differentials using RAWS agent.

[T35216]

HI Kiran,

I noted the recommendation and that is why I am posting here as it would seem to be doubling the backups, one full AVVI and one full raws job.  If the full AVVI job does reset the archive bit I would not need the full raws job

[T35216]

Hi Carlos,

file/folder GRT is available on the AVVI agent, my question remains does the windows archive bit reset when using the AVVI agent for a full backup?

Perhaps you could ask one of your colleagues who is more familiar with the AVVI agent.

[phartman]

GRT jobs copy the object being backed up to a staging area.  for example:  if you are using AVVI, Backup Exec backs up the VM guest's disk, mounts it, then runs catalog operations on the disk.  it does not touch the live VM when performing the granular portions of the backup and therefore will not reset the archive bit on the guest VMs.

[T35216]

HI phartman,

what then is the AVVI GRT differential backup using for change tracking within the guest?

[phartman]

VMware is tracking the changes.

[phartman]

Instead of taking what I've said into consideration for your backup strategy, please refer to the following: https://www-secure.symantec.com/connect/forums/be2012-designstrategy-vmware-based-grt-or-regular-bac...

It does a much better explaination of the features and how AVVI backups work.  My explanation is very crude compared to the link I have listed above.

[T35216]

Hi phartman,

thanks for your input here but my question is not addressed there, That link directs a user to go ahead and implement with AVVI backups and all will be well. 

I have worked with AVVI extensively over the last few years and I am now at the point where I will be using AVVI only to protect the VM, I will utilize the remote agent to protect the guest's data/applications.  The reason I am asking the question Will the full AVVI job reset the archive bit inside the VM's?, is because of the issue I mentioned in the original post discussed here in this article.

In this article it is recommended we run full/differential raws as well as the AVVI jobs, I am going to have a tough time selling this notion into my customer sites.

From your response and the technote I have to proceed on the basis that the windows archive bit is not addressed by the AVVI agent during full backups, in fact it is never used by BE AVVI.

[phartman]

Are you going to use BE2012?  per the article you linked, the reason to have to use that strategy is fixed in 2012.  And yes, VMWare tracks the changed blocks not the archive bit (example of a problem this can have: http://www.symantec.com/business/support/index?page=content&id=TECH128822&actp=search&viewlocale=en_...). 

If you look at the trends and best practices of backups in general, there is a huge migration away from using the archive bit and using modified time/Microsoft Change Journal.  This keeps the backup software from having to touch each file to see if the archive bit is set or not.  In theory, it can improve the efficiency of backups because the backup server is told exactly which files to backup instead of scanning the entire file system.

[T35216]

Hi phartman,

we will not be upgrading to BE 2012 in the near future.  This server centric approach is going to trash tape libraries all over the world in short order.

Modified time is avaiable in BE 2010 ok but my situation is such that I am effectively being forced to double the size of my backups because of a broken 2010 AVVI that Symantec have no intention of fixing in that version.  I have a feeling this may change as there are quite a few customers rolling back to this version and a lot of people will not go to 2012 because of the server centric platform.

[teiva-boy]

If you backup to the dedupe storage, then duplicate to tape...

By way of the deduplication, it will NOT double your storage. 

You can then selectively only duplicate to tape what is needed.

Your first post stated the customer went to tape then to the dedupe storage.  That is against all best practice, and should be the other way.

NOTE:  RAWS dedupes better than AVVI.  So while it wont be all redundant data with a dramatic reduction, there will be efficiencies had in how its all stored on disk.

[T35216]

I cannot restore from dedupe reliably