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Mailbox(es) Backup VERY Slow

ross_aseron
Level 4
I've already spent HOURS troubleshooting this issue, have logged one support call and spent time with a 'technician' on the phone, but still no resolution. here's the deal, it seems to be a common one.

running bews 10d, sav 10, smse 4.6

when backing up the mailboxes (not the information store), the throughput throttles down to less than 1mb/min or hangs. oftentimes i can backup individual mailboxes successfully, but if i try to do them all (20), it invariably hangs.

i've already been referred to (or tried myself) the following tech docs:

symantec 2001010813441454
veritas 264851
veritas 238618
veritas 267437
veritas 275013

in fact, this last one seems to be the best fit. except that it suggests that i disable virus scanning via the registry, and that's just plain ridiculous.

i've searched and read several threads here, but they only seem to offer the following suggestions:
- turn off anti-virus scanning (kind of defeats the purpose of having AV)
- make sure all occurrences of outlook are closed (this will never happen)
- ask veritas/symantec for this 'enhancement' (having products of the same company effectively work together hardly seems to me an 'enhancement', but rather something that should be fundamental)

my question for you veritas/symantec tech support is this: is there a solution to this problem, a problem that others have as well, that doesn't involve disabling anti-virus scanning?

thank you,

ross
85 REPLIES 85

Douglas_Dahlber
Level 4
Sorry to hear you're frustrated. I've got an identical setup software wise.
Can I ask...
What is your hardware configuration?
How much data is involved?
Are you backing up the mailboxes individually or just backing up the entire store at once?

Ashutosh_Tamhan
Level 6
Hello Ross!

Do you get any erros in the event log? Because the backup of MS Exchange mailboxes is carried out using MAPI.

Regards,
Ashutosh

NOTE : If we do not receive your reply within two business days, this post would be marked assumed answered and would be moved to answered questions pool.

Regards,
Ashutosh

NOTE : If we do not receive your reply within two business days, this post would be marked assumed answered and would be moved to answered questions pool.

ross_aseron
Level 4
ashutosh,

no errors in the event logs. well, except the error that states the job has been cancelled because it's gone over the a maximum configured run time. i set a 5 hour limit on it (to back up 22GB), otherwise it will run the whole day.

i'm running server 2k3, sav v10, bews 10d. i have a full backup over the weekend where i backup both the information store and the individual mailboxes (along with the rest of my network). the mailbox piece takes over 15 hours when i just let it run. 15 hours for 22 GB.

during the weekdays i run a differential backup of network data (including the information store) and as a separate nightly backup, a differential backup of the individual mailboxes. i run the mailbox differential after exchange maintenance takes place. as i said above, i put a 5 hour limit on this mailbox differential, otherwise it would never finish.

any thoughts here?

ross

p.s. your note that states "If we do not receive your reply within two business days, this post would be marked assumed answered and would be moved to answered questions pool," is not very helpful. i'm in the office only 3 days a week, so it's quite likely i will not be able to respond within 2 business days.

Douglas_Dahlber
Level 4
I don't think you are going to get anywhere with Ashutosh. It only took him 6 days to respond to this post.

If you look around in all the different threads you will see that the majority of useful information comes from the users and not the tech's (I'm not one of them. Just a nubee). Generally all they do is post a reply with a link to an article. 50% of the time they don't even read the entire post. Just the subject line. (Sorry guys. The evidence is all over this forum. A person makes a post giving their version and hot fixes loaded. The tech responds and tells them to install a hot fix that they already have loaded.)

What hardware are you using? Where are you backing up from and to what media? The more detailed info you can post the higher the chances that one of the real veteran users (not me) can point you in the right direction.

There are a lot of sharp users in this forum. Give some a little more and see what they can do for you.

ross_aseron
Level 4
thanks, douglas. i'm sorry to say that such was my suspicion. though i beg any veritas tech to prove me wrong.

running dell poweredge servers 2600 with win 2k3, latest patches, sps, etc.

all i want to do is backup these bloomin' mailboxes. it can't be that hard, can it (this is a rhetorical question)?

ross

Ken_Putnam
Level 6
My first question is "Do you really need to do Mailbox Backups in the first place?"

They are completely useless in the case of Disaster Recovery, are by nature of the kludge that Veritas uses extremely slow (tho they shouldn't run at 1 MB/min). Also, many users have had very little success actually restoring from them. (scan through the forums)

it is a little dated by now, but take a look at http://mail.tekscan.com/nomailboxes.htm If your want to backup the mailboxes of a couple of high profile users, fine, but as a general rule, there should be very little need to do them.

Douglas_Dahlber
Level 4
Is there any reason why you want to back the mailboxes individually vs. the info store?

If you back up just the info store, what is your thru put for that? Just trying to see where the bottleneck is.

ross_aseron
Level 4
ken and doug,

first off, thanks for your posts.

as you guys both probably know, if i ever want to restore an individual message (which i've done in the past), the only practical way is through individual mailbox backup/restore. granted, i haven't had to do it often, but you know as well as i do that the senior managing partner is going to want it once a year and will scream when it doesn't happen.

which is all, actually beside the point. here's this "feature" touted by symantec/veritas that doesn't work at all.

any veritas tech out there?

ross

NOTE : If I do not receive your reply within two business days, Veritas/Symantec support will be marked assumed incompetent and will be moved out of the gene pool.

Douglas_Dahlber
Level 4
I hear you there. It's always comes down from the top.

Have you considered then as Ken suggested only backing up just the high profile folks individually and then doing a info store backup?

What is your thru put on the info store backup? Still trying to find your bottleneck.

Craig_Srednick
Level 3
Ross:

That was a beautiful notation at the bottom.

I have been following your posts as I am having the exact same issues with our mailbox backups. It runs extremely slow.

We also run infomation store backups 3 times a week to flush out the logs as they tend to grow rapidly.

In our company it is a requirement to backup individual users mailboxes due to the nature of our biz. And to be honest it is a whole lot easier to restore a single users
mailbox from a mailbox backup than from an info store backup.

We are using a Dell PE1650, Windows 2003, BE V10.1 build 5629, with a Dell Powervault 132T tape drive, and of course with all of the updates as everybody is advised to do.

Our Info store backup runs fairly fast, but the mailbox backup which is somewhat large at averaging around 50 -60 Gbs runs very slow, and takes 21 - 30 hours depending on the day of the week. We backup once during the week and during the weekend. Obviously during the week our network traffic is higher and the job runs slower.

I had spent hours on the phone with Veritas and they werent much help in resolving the issue.

If any of the true experts are out there that have solutions we would all
be grateful for help.

Thanks,

Craig

Douglas_Dahlber
Level 4
Boy you guys are really suffering. 33mb/min? Your data set is about the same size as ours (57gb last night). But doing an individual mailbox backup takes less than 3 hours for us. Not something you wanted to hear I'm sure.

I'm not the expert but I ask lots of questions. What's the config of your email server? Is it the same Dell PE1650 box? How long does your info store take to backup? What version of Exchange? Your Domain controllers, what OS are they? W2k or 2003?

ross_aseron
Level 4
doug and craig,

my information store backs up perfectly fine. throughput for 31GB is 482mb/min. that's right, 482. it's great.

i have a dell powervault 122t SDLT 320 (autoloader).

here's a bizarre exception, and i hate to mention it because it's an anomaly. once, and only once to date, the individual mailboxes backed up well: 22GB in 3 hours (119MB/min). prior to and since that time, i've tried to run the same backup on the same day at the same time and it drops to the crappy throughput.

so ... it worked once. but for what reason, i don't know.

ross

p.s. craig, thanks for noticing the note. i'd feared it was too subtle.

p.p.s. veritas techs, i will continue to taunt you until you respond with a competent answer.

Craig_Srednick
Level 3
Ross:

The same thing happened here, we ran a great fast mailbox backup then poof snail speed since then.

Nothing was changed configuration wise on either servers, exchange or backup server.

Doug,

We are running Windows 2003 server on our backup server and on our exchange server, in fact we migrated our whole network from a combination of NT4/W2k to Windows 2003 early last year.

The exchange server is a Dell PE2650, running Exchange/Outlook 2003.


Craig

Douglas_Dahlber
Level 4
You have Outlook installed on the Exchange server?

Here is an article about that.

The Microsoft article "Microsoft does not recommend installing Exchange Server and Outlook on the same computer" (http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=266418) is unequivocal on the subject: Don't do it. Why not? Both Exchange and Outlook customize the Messaging API (MAPI) stack, but in different ways. Whichever product you install first will be broken by the second product's customization. In any case, my question would be why you want to install both products on the same system. If you're trying to provide email access for your administrators, a better alternative is to use Outlook Web Access (OWA). If you need the ability to create MAPI profiles�because of third-party product requirements, for example�the Microsoft article "How To Create MAPI Profiles Without Installing Outlook" (http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=306962) describes how to do so by using the Automatic Profile Generator Program (newprof.exe) and other methods, rather than by using Outlook

Original article can be found at http://www.windowsitpro.com/MicrosoftExchangeOutlook/Article/ArticleID/44187/44187.html

Craig_Srednick
Level 3
Doug:

Woops, the Outlook is not installed on the Exchange server but that we use Outlook for our users.


Sorry for the misinformation.


Craig

Douglas_Dahlber
Level 4
No problem. I was just hoping we stumbled on an easy fix.

ross_aseron
Level 4
perhaps a symantec/veritas tech will stumble on this thread ...

we, too, are running win server 2k3, though on a poweredge 2600. exchange 2k3, outlook clients (though not on the exchange box, of course).

Alvin_Lee
Level 2
Ross,

I'm running the EXACT config as you (Dell PowerEdge 2600, Win 2K3 Server, etc.) and my mailbox backups are running slow as well. I'm well over 20 hours for my backups.

I even split all mailboxes into 2 storage groups, in hoping that it will be faster.

My question is: I can understand the backup taking that long, but the verify after the backup shouldn't take as long. Why would that be?

Seems Veritas needs to do something about this feature...

Alvin

ross_aseron
Level 4
alvin,

your verify takes long? my backups take something like 22 hours, my verify is done in about an hour and a half. what tape system do you have in place?

and i humbly disagree with you about 'understanding' that the backups taking that long.

and, of course, my argument is not really with you. it's with veritas/symantec who don't seem to support their product well at all.

would anyone from veritas/symantec care to comment about this? hello ...? hello ...?