What is going on with Backup Exec 2012 & Windows Server 2012?

 ***I would like to thank all of you for the contributions made to this post over the last month. We hear your frustrations and concerns. At this time, we are closing this thread to further comment. If you require support or have other concerns/questions, please do not hesitate send me or other Symantec support members a Private Message.  Thank you! ***

We hold these truths to be self-evident:

  • Windows Server 2012 has been available for some time now
  • Backup Exec 2012 & 2010 do not support it yet. 

That second part is about to change.  This blog is the place to go for updates on the Backup Exec 2012 & 2010 service pack betas.  Stay tuned as we are on track to go generally available in July, which is just in time for the Windows 2012 R2 preview to be released into the wild.  If I were you, I’d want to know when Backup Exec 2012 will support WS12R2.

The new leadership of Backup Exec put a mandate on quality.  Nothing is leaving this house that is not top of the line quality.  No more shipping just to meet a public release date.  That being said, the WS12 released entailed a LOT of work.  Beyond just an OS, there was an entirely new file system, a new hypervisor, new VSS and, for the first time, native deduplication.  All of these new items were compounded across the myriad of new Microsoft applications and 2 versions of Backup Exec.  With this focus on quality, we have devoted an extraordinary amount of time to testing.  We do not want a repeat of past sins.

A few things to be aware of about the coming service packs:  they are all about platform support.  The Backup Exec beta blog referenced above details everything that will be supported.  There are a few limitations to the service packs:

  • Backup Exec 2010 SP3 & 2012 SP2 will not install on Windows 2012 or Windows 2012 R2 as a media server.  Users must run BE on a Windows 2008 Server or other supported media server platform
  • GRT limitations
  1. Cannot GRT a Windows 2012 ReFS volume
  • Support for this requires OS components that are not present in Windows 2008 and early versions
  1. Cannot GRT Hyper-V VHDX volumes larger than 2TB
  • We currently convert VHDX into VHD volumes in order to perform GRT
  • VHD does not support volumes larger than 2TB. 
  1. GRT Exchange 2013
  • Service packs do not support granular recovery of data from Exchange 2013.  GRT is supported on earlier versions of Exchange.
  1. GRT SharePoint 2013
  • Service packs do not support granular recovery of data from SharePoint 2013. 

Our goal is for the next major release of Backup Exec to support WS12R2.  Over the next several weeks we will finalize scoping the changes required to support WS12R2.  In August , we should be able to give a 6 month window for when you can expect the next BE.  As development progresses, I will be able to narrow that to a 3 month window, then again to a 1 month window.  Again, follow us on Symantec Connect, Spiceworks, Twitter and Google+, for progress updates.

WS12R2 is a much larger project than supporting the initial release of WS12.  Microsoft spent a day in our Heathrow, FL development location working with our product management and engineering teams on what is coming next, and we learned that there will be a lot of changes, including Hyper-V . Since you’ve told us you depend on  Windows and Hyper-V, we do not take these changes lightly.

I’m sharing all of this because we want to be as transparent as possible.  In the past  we’ve overpromised and under delivered but we won’t do that again.  We will deliver quality, just as we are doing with these most recent service packs, and we will stick to our priorities of platform support, quality and seamless migration for future releases.

We are working hard to return Backup Exec to its position as a trusted backup solution that meets or exceeds the demands of your data center.  We are breaking a lot of eggs to make this omelet.  We will probably break a whole lot more.  What we won’t do is ship something that isn’t ready and let you down again.  Our chefs will stay in the kitchen until the solution is right.  In the end though, we’re going to make one hell of an omelet.  Stick around to find out.

94 Comments

I tried NovaStor, however there is no backward compatibiltiy with the BE meda/jobs. I have a lot of encrypted tapes stored offsite that I would need to be able to read.

Have to keep looking. There has to be an alternative to Symantec and their endless nonsense.

*****Hey, Symantec Management*****

Do you see what is happening here? While you are all giving each other high-fives at the company picnic, many of us are bailing out of your product that you no longer seem to care about. Wake up.

GeorgeSVA - I am a member of the BE management team and I hear you. I would welcome the opportunity to speak directly via phone. Please send me a personal message if you would like to setup a call. - Amy

I have used BE since V8. Loved the product and made use of the policies to make life easier. Now, with 2012 we are unable to use policies in the way we do with 2010 so last year we rolled back to 2010 and things are good FOR NOW.

Now, we have to plan for V2010 obselescence and we won't go to 2012 unless they change it to include policies. We are stuck between a rock and a hard place and are looking to replace Symanted BE with another product. It's a shame as we have years of experience loaded into this product which will now go to waste as we learn the new one.

In my situation, we don't care about full server backup! I have to be able to back up about 50 servers choosing files / folders selectively as well as Exchange 2010 multi-site DAG. I could not do the multiple server, select files / folder backup in V2012 when I used it last year.

Is there any chance that 2012 will allow us to use policies simlar to 2010? Also, when WILL 2010 have support for 2012?

Also, why can't we re-run failed Dup to Tape jobs?

Also, why can't we duplicate jobs after they have run? I think I used to do this in previous versions but now I have to go through a torturous process of selecting each backup set then duplicating (with mixed results!!).

M

Multi Server selection in a backup job might get included in the future releases of Backup Exec. I am not sure if there would be policies as in 2010 or it would be implemented in some other way (For more information stay tuned for Beta Blogs). 
BE 2010 currently does support Windows Server 2012 for backups by installing a Remote Agent. This support has been added in Service Pack 3 which can now be applied via Live update.
 
I just tried to re-run a failed duplicate job by right click / run now and that works. Also, tried to duplicate job again by same method right click the job log (of a full to disk which was complete) and duplicate. It does work perfectly. Probabely, I am not able to understand your query clearly.
 

Thank you Jaydeep. I'm going to try to backup Server 2012 as well as Dup jobs in my BE2010. I'll let you know.

I won't upgrade to 2012 unless I can get multi-server jobs.

Thanks,

M

Amy,

 

Way too late for that. Symantec is wrapped in its own BS and doesn't listen to a single

thing anyone says.

I have BE2012 running a Windows 2012 deduplication backup on a volume that is being deduped.

According to your release notes, Symantec does not support deduplication jobs on a Windows Deduplicated volume.  Is this correct?  According to the notes, it will only do regular non-deduped backups.  How can I estimate the amount of tape/disk that this will require?  And why is this not supported?  Does BE still dedupe the non-deduplicated backup?  Your documentation is very confusing.

What's new in Backup Exec 2012 SP2

Backup Exec 2012 Service Pack 2 supports Windows Server 2012 with some limitations. You cannot install a Backup Exec server on a Windows Server 2012 computer. However, you can use the Agent for Windows to back up and restore Windows Server 2012 computers with their operating systems and legacy features. You cannot install the Agent for Windows on ReFS volumes or any volumes that have been enabled for deduplication in Windows.

Windows Server 2012 notes

Backup Exec supports the backup of non-deduplicated data on any volumes that have Windows deduplication enabled. If you try to back up data from a volume that has Windows deduplication enabled, Backup Exec backs it up in its original, non-deduplicated format. Ensure that you have enough storage space for the non-deduplicated data before you run a backup.

I posted back in July and it seems like we have received ZERO actionable information with respect to a product that runs natively on Windows Server 2012. Jumping to another product is difficult when you have old BE tape media that needs to be accessed. I feel like we are getting rogered but good over this.

I have received a lot blantantly incorrect information from Symantec. Here is the text from an email I received from Symantec support in response to a query from Symantec about how I was liking the  BE2012 trial.....(Spencer clearly didn't understand WS2012 was only supported for remote backups)

======================================================

From: name witheld

Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 1:03 PM
To: Name withheld
Subject: RE: Your Symantec trial

That’s not true, it should be out the end of this month, maybe early August. Is what we’ve been told.

From: Name withheld
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 1:02 PM
To: Name Witheld
Subject: RE: Your Symantec trial

Spencer,

To be perfectly blunt, this has been a disaster for us. It is my understanding that Symantec will not have a release of Backup Exec that runs natively on Windows server 2012 until 2014?

All of our servers are now running Windows Server 2012.

Thanks

========================================================

I am also a Symantec AV customer. I can't tell you how many times I have had to use the free version of Malwarebytes to fix a PC where Symantec AV Corp Edition failed.

This whole series of events reminds me of watching Lotus 1-2-3 and WordPerfect shrivel up and die back in the day. Symantec used to be a flagship company with industry leading products. You currently don't even have a product that backs up a Windows Server 2012 only environment. Hello?!?  Its almost 2014! I guess because Windows Server 2012 is produced by this little boutique indie firm up in WA that is not on Symantec's radar? 

GeorgeSVA - I’m sorry to hear you feel that way. The invitation remains open if you would like to discuss sometime in the future. - Amy

Let me try to make this simple as even I was confused at a point only reading this.
 
1. Backup Exec does not support Windows Deduplication volume as a backup target. That is you can't setup a Backup to disk folder or a deduplication folder on such a volume.
2. Yes, backup Exec can backup a Windows Deduplication volume. However, the data is first hydrated and then backed up. What this means is data is back in its own size when you are backing up. So as an example 100 GB of data form a Windows Deduplicated volume when backed up may require a lot more that 100 GB Storage (B2D or Tape) as it will first be hydrated. Additionally to answer your question, if you target such backup to a deduplication folder then yes Backup Exec will deduplicate the data again while backing up. Now while restoring such data back to the Windows Deduplicate volume, it is restored in a hydrated form and will not auto trigger deduplciation. The trick is to restore chunks of data at a time and run a manual Deduplication job in Windows.
3. As for backing up Server 2012, you can install Backup Exec Remote Agent for Windows on it. However, Backup Exec can't b setup as a Media Server on Server 2012 OS. Additionally, Backup Exec can't be installed on a Windows deduplicated volume or an REFS file system. This is similar to most other applications, even Microsoft Applications.

Amy,

I'm not in least bit interested in the standard "I'm sorry" corporate brush-off.

I am interested in Symantec admitting how wrong it was/is and providing a

roadmap to getting this product back up to par.

 

I have a feeling the chances of the Earth reversing its rotation are somewhat better.

Hey Symantec Employees....

If I buy Backup Exec 2012 can I install Backup Exec 2010 instead?   2012 is not working for us but we never owned 2010 for this location.  

norcalty

you can't install the media server on 2012, also the same with 2010. you only can install the agent on 2012.

at now you need to install the media server on 2008, no support for 2012

say thank's to symantec engineers

if you like to downgrade and install on 2008 you can license support

greets

Yes, indeed.  Symantec - right on top of it.  And proud of it.

you can call licensing support to receive a 2010 key to downgrade

On October 18 Windows Server 2012 R2 will be available:

http://blogs.technet.com/b/in_the_cloud/archive/2013/08/14/mark-your-calendars-for-oct-18-the-r2-wav...

Then, Backup Exec 2012 installable on WS2012 will also be available?

@norcalty I hear you and would like to help. Please DM and I will work with you on a resolution. - Amy

All it means is that on October 18th Symantec will be yet one more OS behind.

However, they will continue to congratulate themselves on their hard work finally

pushing out an agent, and their steadfast refusla to admit that BE 2012 is a ridiculous mess.

We installed SP2 form Backup Exec 2012, now we get one service crashed as described in this link

http://www.symantec.com/business/support/index?page=content&id=TECH209777

As you can see, NO SOLUTION FOR THIS ERROR !!!!!!

And this Error

http://www.symantec.com/business/support/index?page=content&id=TECH201649&actp=search&viewlocale=en_...

 

Thanks a lot again symantec for your great work.

 

One customer more to move to another vendor with working backup solution.

Now I hate Symantec Backup Exec

Is it what you prefere that we need to sell other products?

Nettop, could you please try to find these files in the Backup Exec installation directory:  bedscps.dll and bedsdb2.dll 
 
Once you find them, remove them, restart the Backup Exec services and try the backup again.

Done, not working, same error, remote agent service on media server stops imediately after restart of services. same error in eventviewer as before.

 

We've no working backup now!

It is better if you call suport and escalate the case for a faster resolution.

We opened a call, but with this procedure from symantec it can take days until we'll haeve a solution.

I give symantec 24h to solve the issue otherwise I'll install ArcServe Backup

I was a fan from symantec but I'm no longer willing to solve the problems for symantec.

If they mean to push out some software without deep testing the function I can't explain the outlay to my customers. Someone needs to pay my invoices and symantec don't pay it and my customers don't pay it either.

Symantec Software is a garant for headache for sure.

Could you message me the case number.

Nettop, 

 

      Were you able to provide Jaydeep with a case number?? if please message me your open case number so that i can review it... 

Nettop,

I am sorry to hear about your frustration and dissilusionment with Backup Exec. Even though Jaydeep and Donald both have requested your case number to help out, please also message me your contact information if further assistance is needed in getting this resolved .

I love that this got moved, the cynic in me thinks it was because it was top 5 on almost every backup server 2012 search on Google.

"I am sorry to hear about your frustration and dissilusionment with Backup Exec."

He is not dissilusioned, but thanks for the snarky comment towards your customers. 

Case 05000957
Case 05000957
Case 05000957

Hi Symantec Management,

Months ago (lost count) I bought BE2012 to install on Win2012, .....I'm still waiting, but not longer.

How many customers do you want to loose???

Need NOW a roadmap with dates.

I have got the case escalated to the Advanced Team, you would receive a callback soon.

Nettopp, just got another update on this. Could you remove bedsspn.dll and restart the BE services. It should fix the problem.

Hi Jaydeep

 

Thanks for your help, all the services are working now and I hope that this night the backup will run.

One little file with so big impact.

I had a call from symantec that they don't know why this was happen but that they will escalate this to the engineers.

Sorry, but I was not suprised that we have problems, we have so much problems with symantec software.

Please speak with the engineers that they shuold deep testing the software before they push it to the world.

But anyway, thanks for your help to find a solution for us.

Greetings

Dominik

Great!! I have escalated your case to a Advanced Engineer and have discussed the same solution with him. However, even if this works, we would request you to help him if he needs any logs so that this can be fixed permenantly by working with Engineering.

We send yesterday a file of 100MB of logs to the FTP Server it should be enough Smiley Happy

I think Backup Exec is driven to the wall. If in software projects, the structure is reasonably well maintained, it may be impossible to come to such problems. Now there is no time for the basics. I'll look around for alternatives.

Can anyone recommend what product I can purchase to backup WS12? We didnt realize BE2012 could not be installed on the server and we just sold a new server for EMR (electronic medical records) to a large medical clinic. We have to have a way to backup the data and encrypt it per HIPAA (Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act).

 

Thanks, 

Tracy V. May

MnM Computer services

Backup Exec can be installed on the Server 2012 OS as a Remote Agent. If you have the Media Server setup on a supported OS, you can still use it to backup the data from the Server 2012 OS.

Meanmay, 

 

       While backup exec cannot be installed on server 2012 as a media server  the remote agent can be and you would be able to backup it up. you would just need to install backup exec on a supported machine as the media server..

 

http://www.symantec.com/docs/TECH175581

 

Hi Tracy

you can use Microsoft Data Protection Manager 2012.

The setup is done within 60 minutes and it supports all current Microsoft OS Versions.
Installation is simple and fast, the deployment of the agent is done within a few minutes.

Backup and Restore is easy and simple.
You can have short storage terms with disc based backup and long storage terms with a library.

All the recommendations of symantec to install the media server on a supported windows (2008 R2) are only a week excuse for "not having a up to date product NOW".

Symantec is one year behind and will be more when Windows 2012 R2 will be published on 18. Oktober.
The next Releas of Data Protection Manager 2012 R2 is ready. And DPM 2012 R2 will support 2012 R2!

I am done with Symantec 2012 SP2, Setup was fine. But after a reboot the services failed and it took some minutes to get BE 2012 running.

Donald

I think anyone who has read this full thread will know by now that you can't install BE2012 media server on Windows 2012.  The question that Symantec appear to be avoiding is WHEN will we be able to install BE2012 or 2010 on Windows 2012 as a media server.

The fact that we've had to wait until July 2013 for the remote agents for 2012 is mind numbing to say the least.  But PLEASE, can someone at Symantec give some indication of when/if you are going to bring the necessary update for the media server install???

Your customers are making strategic decisions on their backup software based on the misunderstanding that BE2012 is usable in the latest environments. (The 2012 "label" is a joke)

Jon.

You say that as if it is a completely acceptable situation.

Remarkable corporate culture at Symantec.

The joke being that we where sold backup exec 2012 back in October last year with the assurance it supported vsphere 5.1 and server 2012. Its taken them almost a year to support both of these and even now it fails to support vsphere 5.1 update 1, media server on server 2012 and now vsphere 5.5 has arrived and server 2012 r2 round the corner and no evidence that symantec are being any more pro active in getting a product to market that will support these anytime soon.