08-02-2011 12:05 PM
Hi All,
In my organization we are in phase of restructuring/Scaling the backup Infrastructure and License evaluation and doing some cost analysis in terms of Storage which we are using for the backup destination.
--> Currently we are using purely Netapp Storage for everything , as Distributed storage as well as NAS Shares , however I feel that this is creating lot of dependancy and also the Cost , my intension is to use the Netbackup Appliances for the Storage used by netbackup as it is cost effective as well as the backup team will also have a control over the required storage also we might save some cost per TB ( This is my assumption as of for now) .
I am creating a business case and cost analysis and need some points from the experts using which I can justify why the use of Netbackup appliance would better then Netapp storage.
Any help :) ...
08-03-2011 04:23 PM
Just find out the cost per GB and go from there.
But ask yourself this... You are backing up these primary NetApp volumes. These contain your production data. Then you turn around and write your backups to your NetApp. There is something to be said about putting your backups on the same primary storage device.
08-03-2011 05:15 PM
Hi Teiva,
Thanks for Input and the point which you mentioned is one of points which I have mentioned.
-Boomchi
08-04-2011 03:00 AM
Hi,
Nice choice but I would also suggest looking at N52xx series which are ready to run Netbackup Media server (just give an IP and a license and enjoy). This could be a perfect replacement solution if your current media servers aren't 64bits compatible or if they have low deduplication performance.
Regards
08-04-2011 07:35 AM
Hi Kshitij,
NetApp is a fantastic primary storage platform, however it is not a true data protection platform. Teiva is spot on about the per TB cost considerations.
No matter which series (NetBackup 5000 or 5200 series), you get the following over NetApp as your data protection platform.
Bernard makes an interesting case in case your current media servers are due for hardware refresh or you plan to add additional media servers. NetBackup 5200 series provides you media server and deduplication storage. Now, with the version 2.0 appliance software, you can also set it up as a master server.
Here what I would recommend:
Also note that appliances are compatible with software versions of your media servers. So you are not doing a fork lift replacement. You could extend the life of you existing investment (current software media servers can also write to appliance deduplication pools) while bringing in these powerful systems.
More information on appliances: http://netbackupappliance.com
08-04-2011 11:19 AM
Hi Rasheed,
Thanks a lot for your post on this. I second your thought regarding the featurs of Appliance aslo I have compared the Cost per TB , definatly its a cost savings .
As of for now we are not in not thinking of adding any new media servers so I am planning for 5000 , but in future would like to have a 5200 in one of large remote site which is currenly with PD..
I also need your thoughts on the below mentioned point.
While doing my analysis and as I mentioned earlier that we are pure Netapp Storage co..( as of for now ) :) , thats why nearly 70 % of our backups are NDMP which are going to tape ( for all retention levels) and thats one big reason I am proposing this to my management., However as we know that the dedup ratio of NDMP backups is not so good , is there some new file handlers being introduced by Symantec in 7.1 or 7.1.0.1 to handle better dedup for NDMP backups .
This will make my case more strong..
Regards,
Boomchi
08-04-2011 11:58 AM
Hi Boomchi,
Yes! We have an intelligent stream handler for NetApp NDMP data stream. This stream handler understands NetApp’s NDMP stream format (their format is ufs_dump) and identifies file boundaries so that deduplication much more efficient. While third party deduplication devices do not have this content intelligence (they see the stream as a blob of data, significant processing overload to identify unique fingerprints; hence poor deduplication when things shift in the stream), NetBackup can do this much more efficiently. If you are at NetBackup 7.0.1 or higher on you media server that is driving NetBackup 5000 series appliances, the deduplication plugin is already capable of identifying NetApp’s ufs_dump data stream and provide global deduplication across files stored in NetApp and other client systems. I would also recommend updating your NetBackup 5000 series appliance to v 1.3.
One thing to note is that the your very first backup might show lower than expected deduplication rates. This is normal as the streamer is adapting to the new data set. After the initial backup, the performance and deduplication rate will go up.
08-04-2011 12:04 PM
I would highly recommend considering the NetBackup 5020 Appliance over the 5000. The additional storage is nice (32TB vs. 16TB), but the IPMI port's virtual KVM works for remote console access.
Regarding NDMP stream handlers, since you're using NetApp, NetBackup 7.0 and 7.1 has deduplication stream handlers for NetApp and the upfs-data format that NetApp uses.
More information is available here:
08-04-2011 02:51 PM
Hi Rasheed/All,
Good News !! , I just completed my presentation and management really liked it and I got an approval for 2 nos. 5020 appliances and also 5220 4TB in future for one of my remote sites.
I just have one more ques !! actaully its a question raised by one the manager . Please see below.
Ques :- Suppose I buy 64 TB capacity and I am just using 40 TB , is there any possibility of using remaining 22 TB as a distibuted storage , ex:- for any file server or something ??
" I did not had an answer to this , however its sound silly but the point is valid. can some please help me answering this question , either yes or no , but I need to answer..
, I may bug you guys again if I need some more information. Symantec Rocks !!!
Regards,
Boomchi
08-04-2011 03:10 PM
Congratulations, Boomchi! You are going to love those 5020s.
When you deploy two 5220s as a global deduplication pool, storage is used based on hash distribution. The unused space cannot be used for file serving or other use cases. All NetBackup appliances are purpose-built for data protection.
However, you may want to highlight the fact that Symantec does not charge you on backend for deduplication. You are paying for the frontend data that you protect. So you are not necessarily wasting money by buying an two appliances and using say 40TB out of 64TB. Your manager will be happy to hear that :)
Warm regards,
Rasheed
08-04-2011 03:37 PM
Yeah !! I know Rasheed, I am just waiting for our vendor to come for quotes..
Thanks for answering my last ques ( As of for now) :) , however I know thats not got to stop the show..
Regards,
Boomchi
08-07-2011 11:25 PM
Hi, as N5000 appliance (and N5200) user, I comfirm that virtual KVM (through ISM) is a must have feature!
Whenever you want to re-image the appliance (in case of!) or want to give access to the appliance to Tech Support, the KVM is a mandatory feature as it will allow you to give access to the appliance to remore tech supp. Otherwise you won't have any choice but have a real console/keyboard/mouse connected to the appliance. Beside extra capacity the virtual KVM in the 5020 is a great advantage as the 5000 hasn't (yet!).
Regards
08-08-2011 08:34 AM
Hi all, Dimitris from NetApp here (http://www.recoverymonkey.org).
First of all, thanks for using our products.
Second, I'm not trolling the board, just wanted to provide the data protection perspective as seen by NetApp.
The recommended way to back up NetApp systems is to take application-aware snaps of your data, and replicate those snaps to a lower-cost NetApp system at some other facility.
This provides backups but, more importantly, easier disaster recovery - since no data needs to be restored (it's all in the native format and can be made active and mounted extremely easily).
Always think about what you're trying to protect from.
If you are worried about a site failure, then you absolutely need to store your backups someplace far from your production disk - whatever form those backups take (tape, b2d, snaps - doesn't matter).
Hopefully this helps.
Thx
D