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Anyone out there using SEPATON appliances with OST?

Dip
Level 4

Please share your experience with overall Dedup, Replication, AIR. We are trying to collecting some information about these Dedup OST Backup appliances for a project and your information will help us.  

Thank you,

12 REPLIES 12

VictorNemo
Not applicable
Partner

Hi Dip,

Sepaton is now owned by Hitachi Data Systems and is now called Hitachi Protection Platform (HPP).

I'm an HDS employee so I won't try to sell you on HPP, but I'll just say that we believe we have market leading OST support and provide one of the fastest and most scalable PBBAs for NetBackup. More info at www.hds.com/protection

Hopefully, some of our customers will respond to your questions.

Cheers,

Victor

Dip
Level 4

Victor:

Thank you for reply and the link. Yes, I am aware HDS has acquired SEPATON. I am really hopping to hear from Symantec customers.

Marianne
Level 6
Partner    VIP    Accredited Certified
Also curious to know what the recent user experience is with Sepaton. The supported OST features certainly look impressive. I was involved with a customer some years ago where Sepaton was used as VTL. Was NOT a good experience...

Gnur
Level 3

DIP and Marianne,

Our company is currently utilizing the Hitachi (Sepaton) Protection Platform (poor choice in marketing name in my opinion); it's a new nomenclature for what was known as the Sepaton VTL deduplication appliance line (on HP G7 hardware platform). It works on a master and slave node(s) concept for larger storage capacity to handle processing and performance. Our current total backup size is half a Petabyte (over two years), and of the 212TB total space allocated, only 112TB has been used up, giving us a ration of 5:1. Take into considerations of some consistent delta's and mostly uniform backup datasets.

It is post process dedup/compression, but cleanup is automatic; no need to schedule clean-up like that on the old EMC Data Domains. Ingest rates are only limited to the transport methods used and the Network and SAN infrastructure and or media server capabilities.

For instance, we have a master server and 10 media servers and use the OST over fibre (SAN) transport option (enabled via licensing) to send/retrieve backup data to and from the HPP. We are getting throughput per stream of about 100 MB/s. In the past we tried with 10 GbE ethernet enbled OST medium, but our network would get bogged down, and the Network team would get on our case ;). The appliance defaults to OST over FC, but will downgrade to ethernet if SAN ports are down.

Pros:

Fast (OST of FC), scalable, almost set-and-forget, and the support group is truly amazing; we ditched DataDomain and did not even go production with HP's product offerring... We are also encrypting data on the backend storage with the new Hitachi HUS encryption cards.

Cons:

None that support and ourselves couldn't tackle.

Other thoughts:

We encountered some initial roll-out issues and a few learning curves on our end, but the excellent support group (both with implementation Engineers, Support Engineers, and Software Engineers) help iron things out quickly! The latest iterations of the firmware have been very stable.

Here is the datasheet link to the HPP:

http://www.hds.com/assets/pdf/hitachi-protection-platform-datasheet.pdf

Gnur
Level 3

Additionally,

We performed replciation via AIR between our main data center and remote hot-site. However, we stopped this due to some network WAN bandwidth issues. Will most likely resume AIR utilization from our main NBU domain to a DR domain in the future.

Dip
Level 4

Thank you Gnur. Your detailed response is very valuable.

sdo
Moderator
Moderator
Partner    VIP    Certified

@Gnur,

1) Do you feel that you had cease AIR because the OST engine inside the Sepaton/HPP was generating too much traffic, or simply because the WAN link didn't have enough bandwidth?

2) Does the Sepaton have anything available similar to the NetBackup Appliance feature of WAN optimization:

https://www-secure.symantec.com/connect/articles/netbackup-appliances-network-optimization

Thanks.

sdo
Moderator
Moderator
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@Gnur,

3) You previously stated that dedupe within the Sepaton/HPP is post process based.  This leads to me to several other questions:

3a) I would expect that OST replication cannot begin until the post process deduplication has completed.  Is this true for Sepaton/HPP?

3b) Does the Sepaton/HPP prioritise receipt of backup data over and above the deduplication processing, i.e. does it only perform deduplication as the devices get quieter?

3c) Are threshholds configurable, i.e. do you as a backup/system admin have control over settings to tune/adjust when deduplication begins, and how much processing capability to apportion to deduplication?

3d) Is the Sepaton/HPP like Exagrid, in that... does the device retain a non-deduplicated copy of the most recent backups in the landing zone (prior to deduplication) so that restores from the most recent backup never have to be rehydrated?  Or are all ingested/received backups always deduplicated and always removed from the landing zone?

3e) How many 'threads' of deduplication can each Sepaton/HPP server/storage box perform concurrently?

Gnur
Level 3

SDO,

1) Do you feel that you had cease AIR because the OST engine inside the Sepaton/HPP was generating too much traffic, or simply because the WAN link didn't have enough bandwidth?

Simply WAN issues on ourside -multiple network switches, firewall limitations, and a shared ethernet pipe that prevents a resistence-free transfer of data between sites. Since we do not have a replication (free of tlimitations) back-bone to compare against, and there is a central switching station that our network team subscribes to. Also we don't currently use jumbo frames.

2) Does the Sepaton have anything available similar to the NetBackup Appliance feature of WAN optimization:

I can't answer this question because we don't use the Appliances, my only other expericence has been with the Data Domain (hash based dedupe and post clean-up).

 

Gnur
Level 3

SDO,

3) You previously stated that dedupe within the Sepaton/HPP is post process based.  This leads to me to several other questions:

3a) I would expect that OST replication cannot begin until the post process deduplication has completed.  Is this true for Sepaton/HPP?

I can't recall since this has been a few months now that we decided to not use replication to our hotsite domain; but if I remember correctly, a full backup occurrs at the local site, compression occurs immediately even if a second backup set has not been create for dedupe; but if you are referring to a situation like "opt-dupe" (never used, just heard about), the data lands and sent off immediately before a full backup image is comopletely created and is reconstituted at the remote site, then the answer is no, the first set would need to complete before data is ship to the remote site via AIR. However, we are not in need of an opt-dupe approach and can live with data replication occuring over several days. I'll have to get a refresher from our Support Engineers about this again.

3b) Does the Sepaton/HPP prioritise receipt of backup data over and above the deduplication processing, i.e. does it only perform deduplication as the devices get quieter?

In memory, I think the most recent backup is not deduped until the next backup set occurs, as it lands on backend disks, and line speed backup rates are able to be maintained without a drastic performance impact on the enclosures.

3c) Are threshholds configurable, i.e. do you as a backup/system admin have control over settings to tune/adjust when deduplication begins, and how much processing capability to apportion to deduplication?

We haven't needed to perform much tuning of Sepaton, but the support group has made some modification to increase performance, and it seems to be running more lean. Really, if you need to cruch i/o, gain some speeds for data processing, just indicate how much data you plan to backup to the appliance(s) and they can configure how many master and slave nodes to install at your site(s). Also let them know how what your data growth change rate is at and forecasted.

3d) Is the Sepaton/HPP like Exagrid, in that... does the device retain a non-deduplicated copy of the most recent backups in the landing zone (prior to deduplication) so that restores from the most recent backup never have to be rehydrated?  Or are all ingested/received backups always deduplicated and always removed from the landing zone?

In my understanding, the most recent backup set is not de-dedupe, but dedupe begins as soon as the new backup image is being created.

It does have this capability where you can designate a non-dedupe storage pool as a temporary landing site. In our experience with any type of backup storage appliance, we don't like to have all our eggs in one basket, and if the appliance requires downtime for maintenance, we can't get to our data, especially hire tier data of importance such as DB logs, and non-dedupe images. Instead we setup a separate enclosure for DSU's (Advanced Disk) -large enough hold up to 28 hours for instance recovery purposes. This non-dedup data is then spun off to tape.

3e) How many 'threads' of deduplication can each Sepaton/HPP server/storage box perform concurrently?

By default, and if you are using OST, each VTL/OST FC (4 gig with our g7 series appliance) port handles six streams per port, and four ports per appliance server/storage node. However, I think there is a limit of 256 streams per port -you'll have to ask HDS sales about this; we are using the default. It is also import to know the limitations of your master/media servers in regards to HBA FC port speeds.

In our situation, we have two appliance nodes (master and slave), each with 4 OST/VTL ports, we use 48 streams for OST over FC backups.

sdo
Moderator
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Hi Gnur - thank you very much for taking what is obviously a fair amount of time to reply.  I'm sure many will appreciate the detail.  Thank you again.

Gnur
Level 3

Hi SDO and others,

You are very welcome; I apologize for some of the spelling and grammatical errors, but it was a quick brain dump.

:) gnur