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Appliance MSDP/ Capacity Managed Retention

shuajom
Level 2

Hi,

I'm having an issue with planning disk pools on a 5330. It has 114TB and to my understanding I can set it up like this with storage lifecycle policies:

-AdvancedDisk (staging area):
50TB
Capacity Managed retention
Duplicate to MSDP
Duplicate to Tape Library

-MSDP:
64TB
Fixed Retention 2 weeks

-Tape:
Fixed Retention 4 weeks

My question is: can I use capacity managed on the deduplication pool? I am trying to set it up so that the restore can be done from disk if available, but we can plan for future growth without having to change fixed retention on MSDP. I'm concerned that the size of the MSDP on the appliance won't suffice for future growth, but I could be underestimating the capacity used.

Thanks,

Josh
 

2 ACCEPTED SOLUTIONS

Accepted Solutions

tunix2k
Level 5
Partner Accredited

Yeah, why you want to have 2 copies on the same appliance?

With MSDP as first backuptarget you can benefit from accelerator and client-side-deduplication. 

With clients side dedup I had less then 50% of time for a complete restore. (testet with 3 TB redirected restore on a new installed client)

Duplication to tape will be a little faster from adv , but this should not be so important.

 

There is no capacity managed retention for msdp. I wount work. It will take a couple of hours from expiration of images and have more free space on msdp.

In a Windows environment our dedup rates are beetwen 75 and over 95 %. Depending of kind of data. Compessed SQL backups and outlook pst files are bad for deduplication.

 

ciao

Martin

View solution in original post

tgray21
Level 3

No, the deduplication engine will not get backlogged if you send the information directly to it.  You just need to manage the amount of streams you are sending to the appliance at once.  Start with less streams and work your way up until performance starts to drop, then go back down to the level where you had the most streams and best performance.  Keep in mind that if you are duplicating the data from MSDP to tape, you will want to run those when no backup jobs are running, or limit them to 2-4 at a time.  They need to rehydrate the data which generally takes a decent amount of resources and affects performance.

And as Martin pointed out, going to MSDP would allow you to use Accelerator and Clientside dedup (depending on the policy type), which work very well together to shorten the amount of time and space used for future operations.

And yes, you can allocate all of the space to MSDP.  We have 2 - 5330s that are fully allocated for MSDP, except for a small AdvancedDisk pool for testing.

You are correct though in your assumption that databases generally do not dedup well... But in my opinion, the pros still outweigh the cons for going directly to MSDP first.  The only way to know what is best for your environment would be to test both.

Regards,

Tyler

View solution in original post

6 REPLIES 6

RiaanBadenhorst
Moderator
Moderator
Partner    VIP    Accredited Certified

Why do you want to use adv disk instead of dedupe as your primary target? 

tunix2k
Level 5
Partner Accredited

Yeah, why you want to have 2 copies on the same appliance?

With MSDP as first backuptarget you can benefit from accelerator and client-side-deduplication. 

With clients side dedup I had less then 50% of time for a complete restore. (testet with 3 TB redirected restore on a new installed client)

Duplication to tape will be a little faster from adv , but this should not be so important.

 

There is no capacity managed retention for msdp. I wount work. It will take a couple of hours from expiration of images and have more free space on msdp.

In a Windows environment our dedup rates are beetwen 75 and over 95 %. Depending of kind of data. Compessed SQL backups and outlook pst files are bad for deduplication.

 

ciao

Martin

shuajom
Level 2

I was using Adv Disk as my target on the assumption it would just stage the data for the two locations - I must have misunderstood something. I was under the impression that I would get backlogged if I received the data to the deduplication engine directly.

The data is mostly SAP database and I was concerned about how well it would deduplicate. Can I allocate all of the space to MSDP? Would I use AdvancedDisk at all then?

 

Thanks,

Josh

tgray21
Level 3

No, the deduplication engine will not get backlogged if you send the information directly to it.  You just need to manage the amount of streams you are sending to the appliance at once.  Start with less streams and work your way up until performance starts to drop, then go back down to the level where you had the most streams and best performance.  Keep in mind that if you are duplicating the data from MSDP to tape, you will want to run those when no backup jobs are running, or limit them to 2-4 at a time.  They need to rehydrate the data which generally takes a decent amount of resources and affects performance.

And as Martin pointed out, going to MSDP would allow you to use Accelerator and Clientside dedup (depending on the policy type), which work very well together to shorten the amount of time and space used for future operations.

And yes, you can allocate all of the space to MSDP.  We have 2 - 5330s that are fully allocated for MSDP, except for a small AdvancedDisk pool for testing.

You are correct though in your assumption that databases generally do not dedup well... But in my opinion, the pros still outweigh the cons for going directly to MSDP first.  The only way to know what is best for your environment would be to test both.

Regards,

Tyler

shuajom
Level 2

Thanks Tyler, your answer was really helpful in confirming what I've been pondering today - especially knowing you have 2x 5330 with them fully allocated to MSDP. So many documents say 64TB maximum and it's quite confusing to be honest. 

I'm going to have to really test client side deduplication, since many of the SAP servers may not want to spend their CPU cycles on that. I suppose a lot of that will depend on network as well.

Thanks to everyone else as well.

 

Josh

tgray21
Level 3

Yeah, the documentation can be confusing if you don't know exactly what you're looking for.

The 64TB limit I believe was for "Build your own" MSDP servers (I believe it has since been increased as well,) but the appliances are an exception and have different limits.  We had ours fully expanded to 229TB which was the limit at the time when we got them, and now with 2.7.1 they have increased that to add another expansion shelf for a total of 458TB, which we are considering moving to.

https://www.veritas.com/product/backup-and-recovery/netbackup-appliances/?id=netbackup-appliance-5330

Regards,

Tyler