Application Backup and Automatic Backup

[MAllen_2]

Hello everyone, we have a SQL server we are trying to backup with NB 6.5.1.  I believe I have found the difference with automatic and application backups.  It appears that the automatic backup dictates when the application backup kicks off while the retention time and actual backup is done by the application backup itself. 

Basically we have a few different schedules we need to setup with differing retention times.  What is the recommended procedure to make different schedules with different retention times?  I would assume you would need one automatic backup for each application backup so they start at the correct time and have the correct retention schedule.  However, I don't see any way to link an automatic backup to an application backup.

I have found the following KB article that has a solution, but honestly it seems slightly cheesy.   

http://seer.support.veritas.com/docs/258640.htm

Also the article only lists 4.5, 5.0 and 5.1.  Is this still the recommended practice in 6.5 or is there a better way?

Thanks for any pointers on this.

Mike

[Jeff_Myers]

Well I think the answer to this is pretty straightforward, but maybe I'm missing the point.  What it sounds like is that you need to create one policy that defines what you want to backup, and then create multiple schedules that define when to backup the data, what type of backup you want (ie: full, differential, etc), and then set the retention period.  This is where you also specifiy the start window.

Does that seem to fit the bill?

Jeff

[MAllen_2]

Thanks for the reply Jeff, just to clarify, are you recommending making completely separate policies, one for daily, one for weekly, one for monthly?

I guess that would do it, it would have separate appliation backups with different retention times...  I guess I might be hoping for too much but ideally I think I would like to see a drop down box in the automatic backup telling it to use a specific application backup.  That way it would start when you wanted and have a specific retention time as well, in one policy.  Hehe one can dream I guess :p

Thanks again for the response.

Mike

[Jeff_Myers]

No, I'm actually suggesting you do this in one policy.  You can have multiple schedules assigned to a single policy.  Each schedule can have different retention policies.  So in your example you could do a weekly full, a daily differential, and perhaps a monthly copy (full).  You can then set them to different retention periods like 1 month, 2 weeks, and 1 year respectively (or whatever makes sense for your environment).

Jeff

[MAllen_2]

Thanks again, I follow you, but that is where the problem comes.  Regardless of how I set the retention times on the automatic backups, they are ignored and the retention time is set by the application backup.  Basically this is how we have our schedules setup:

Automatic Backup - Daily - Mon through Thurs - retention time 2 weeks

Automatic Backup - Weekly - Friday - retention time - 2 months

Automatic Backup - Monthly - Last Friday of month - retention time 6 months

Application Backup - retention time 2 weeks.

So with SQL backups, the automatic backup starts and launches the application backup.  The application backup backs up each database.  So in the situation above, regardless of which backup starts ie Daily, Weekly, or Monthly, it is retained for only 2 weeks.  The link above pretty much says this is expected behavior and gives a workaround but as I mentioned the workaround is kind of cheesy and it only lists through version 5.1.

When application backups are used in conjunction with the automatic backup it's a different beast than normal backups.

I appreciate the replies though, I might have to end up calling support to see if there is any better option or submit to the cheesy workaround.

Thanks again

[J_H_Is_gone]

let us clarify something.

you keep saying "automatic backups"..........

are you refering to Netbackup STARTING the job.... or are you refering to the SQL on the client starting the job?  (meaning your schedule is a "user" schedule")?

if the job is started on the client then the client is using netbackup commands and telling it which schedule to use.... check with your dba and find out how the job is started and look at what it is doing....

[MAllen_2]

Thanks as well for the reply J.  If the policy type is set to MS-SQL-Server there are two types of schedules that can be created, Automatic and Application.  I've taken a screenshot to clarify. http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sqlbackupsuh6.jpg Application Backups don't have a calendar so you can't set when it starts, also it needs something to initiate the backup.  The automatic type of backup controls this.

Hope that clarifies the 'automatic backup'

Mike

[MAllen_2]

Sorry guys, looks like clicking the link doesn't get ya anywhere.  I had to copy and paste it out.

Mike

[Colin_North · Accepted solution]

Hi there,

The document 258640 would be applicable to NBU 6.0, but you'd need to be careful about you configure your policies & schedules. I'd pay attention to the following paragraph in this document...

"Please note that it is very important the two "Backup Policy" schedules (Default-Application-Backup in NetBackup 4.5) do not overlap. If they do overlap, unpredictable results can occur, and backups could fail to take place or could expire prematurely."

If you're running monthly backups for example you wouldn't want those to expire after the same period as your weekly ones.

For my SQL agent backups I have two seperate policies - policy 1 = daily, weekly & user backups all with 5 week retention / policy 2 = monthly backups with 13 month retention.

Hope that helps.

Colin.

[MAllen_2]

Thanks as well Colin for the reply.  It sounds like there isn't much to go with apart from either creating separate policies or making multiple application backups that don't overlap. 

Far be it from me to question the man, but it just seems that there could be a better way of doing it.

Thanks all for the replies.

Mike

[MAllen_2]

For anyone who is interested, there are currently only two ways of doing this.  As Colin mentioned, the document can be used with version 6.5 however depending on how big your backup window is and how many different retention times you need the time will have to be split up and can't overlap, otherwise the incorrect application backup might be used and in turn the incorrect retention time.  For example we have a 12 hour backup window and 4 different retention times.  To split the time evenly you would have to break it up into 3 hour sets.  The first retention time is set to run during hours 1 through 3, the second retention time is set to run during hours 4 through 6 etc.  This way the automatic backup launches and uses the proper application backup.  Also depending on how many backup jobs are running, you would probably want to set a priority so you make sure it runs.

Alternatively multiple policies can be created and each set for the full backup window.  We found this more advantagous due to the fact that  it gives us the entire night for the backup to run and not just a 3 hour window.  However it is a little messy in that you now have 4 policies to maintain instead of the one.

Speaking to support they put in a product enhancement request so that there would be a drop down box on the automatic backup or something similiar that would dictate which application backup to use... seems simple enough but we'll where that goes.

Thanks again to everyone for the replies

Mike