Backing up XP VM on Server 2008 R2 Hyper-V Host

[dale_m1]

Hello,

I have a Server running Server 2008 R2 Hyper-V.  I presently have one, and expect to have a couple more XP/SP3 guest VMs on this host.  I had hoped to use BESR 2010 to individually back up these XP VMs by installing BESR directly to the XP VM - just as I do with XP physical systems. 

Experience is suggesting this is not a workable solution.  The product installs fine, the backup runs, apparently fine until typically about midway, at which point it hangs indefinitely.  (All Hyper-V Integration Services for this VM are installed)

Further research suggests there is a problem with the level of XP's support for VSS (that only Server 2003 and later provide sufficient support) though it remains unclear to me why XP with BESR 2010 works in a physical and not in a virtual environment.

In light of the above, I have three questions;

1) Can anyone confirm that a direct install of BESR 2010 to an XP/SP3 VM is officially unsupported?

2) Does Symantec presently offer a means of performing hot backups of a Hyper-V XP VM without the need to back up the entire host server?

3) Is it safe to assume that the direct install of BESR 2010 to a Server 2003 or 2008 VM (assuming proper server license) is an approved configuration?

Actually, four questions;

4) I've noticed that Symantec now has a BESR Virtual Edition which appears to provide licensing for as many VMs as you may have on a single physical box.  Is this basically an effort to offer a more cost effective licensing package or is there some functionality in this version that would not be present if one were to simply buy individual BESR server licenses for each server VM?  Assuming one is not using the BESR Management Solution, does this product simply involve installing BESR, in it's entirety on each VM - or does this product provide some new installation model?

Thank You greatly for your assistance,

[Markus_Koestler]

Maybe this post may shed some light onto your questions: https://www-secure.symantec.com/connect/forums/hyper-v-besr-2010

[criley]

As per the BESR 2010 admin guide:

To create a backup of a running virtual machine, the following conditions must
be met:

■ The guest machine must be running Windows Server 2003 or later.
If the guest machine is running Win 2000, Win XP 32- or 64-bit, you can only
create a system state backup (cold backup).

Regarding the Virtual Edition; there is no additional functionality. It's just a more cost-effective way of using BESR in virtual environments.

[dale_m1]

Chris / Markus,

Thank you both for the prompt replies.  I had read both the referenced thread and the section from the Admin Guide, but something I had read elsewhere made me think the live backup of an XP VM might still work.  (will self-administer one dope-slap)  So, just to make sure I am clear, with BESR 2010, excluding for now the BESR 2010 Virtual Edition, my backup options are as follows;

Option 1:  Install BESR 2010 on host.  This will provide an all or nothing backup of all resident VMs.  Any pre Server 2003 VMs will need to be in a stopped state prior to executing the backup.  An appropriate server or desktop BESR 2010 license will need to have been purchased to cover all resident VMs. 

Option 2:  Install BESR 2010 directly on each VM.  This will provide the benefit of granularity to restore operations.  Presumably this is not an option for pre Server 2003 VMs since those VMs need to be in a stopped state to perform a reliable backup and therefore can only be reliably backed up centrally using option 1 above.

Questions;

1. Regarding option 1 above:  In addition to the licenses for each guest VM, I assume a license also has to be purchased for the BESR installation on the Host itself?

2. Regarding option 1 above:  If the need arises to restore a single VM, the only way this can be done with the BESR 2010 product is to perform a complete restore of the entire Hyper-V box, and thereby implicitly, all resident VMs.  Is this correct?

3. Regarding option 2 above:  I assume one license, server or desktop, depending on the case, is required for each VM on which BESR is installed?

4. Regarding option 2 above:  The BESR 2010 User’s Guide says, “To restore a virtual machine you must restore the recovery point of the host computer.  The host computer recovery point must include the volume that holds the virtual machine you want to restore.  You cannot restore a specific virtual machine.”  So, it sounds as though option 2, while useful for providing a degree of file recovery in a VM, does not provide a means to restore an entire individual VM.  Is this correct?

5.  BESR 2010 Virtual Edition would offer no further functional options to the above, only pricing benefits.  Is this correct?

Sorry for the laundry list of questions.  Hopefully this will be of benefit to other readers in addition to me.

Thank You for your assistance. 

[criley]

1. Regarding option 1 above:  In addition to the licenses for each guest VM, I assume a license also has to be purchased for the BESR installation on the Host itself?

I'm checking on this. Let me get back to you.

2. Regarding option 1 above:  If the need arises to restore a single VM, the only way this can be done with the BESR 2010 product is to perform a complete restore of the entire Hyper-V box, and thereby implicitly, all resident VMs.  Is this correct?

I believe you would need to restore the volume that holds the virtual machines files, not the entire server.

3. Regarding option 2 above:  I assume one license, server or desktop, depending on the case, is required for each VM on which BESR is installed?

This is where the 'virtual edition' comes in. It provides unlimited BESR server licenses for use in VMs (licensed per Hyper-V host).

4. Regarding option 2 above:  The BESR 2010 User’s Guide says, “To restore a virtual machine you must restore the recovery point of the host computer.  The host computer recovery point must include the volume that holds the virtual machine you want to restore.  You cannot restore a specific virtual machine.”  So, it sounds as though option 2, while useful for providing a degree of file recovery in a VM, does not provide a means to restore an entire individual VM.  Is this correct?

You can restore the operating system and data that resides inside the VM but not the actual virtual machine itself. In other words, to restore, you would need to manually re-create the VM (with an empty disk) and boot from the SRD. You can then restore from the recovery point to get the machine up and running again. Hope that is clear..?

5.  BESR 2010 Virtual Edition would offer no further functional options to the above, only pricing benefits.  Is this correct?

That is correct. If you are going with option 2, it's much more cost effective.

Hope all that helps.

[dale_m1]

Chris,

Thanks again for the detailed responses - these clarify things a fair bit.

On item (1), yes, if you could pin down the anwer on that licensing question it woudl be useful to me.

On item (2), I hadn't thought of that, but yes, I suppose you could simply restore the volume with the virtual machine and vhd files.  It would still mean all the virtual systems get restored, but at least the host is out of the picture.

On item (3) - agreed.

On item (4) - Yes, I see what you mean.  I didn't know if this was possible or not - booting a VM off from the SRD.  (Still making the mental adjustment to the virtual world)

On item (5) - Got it.

OK, good - I'll start sorting through my options and come up with a strategy.

Thanks again.

[kqf_chris]

Just wanted to add, I am also running Windows Server 2008 R2 Hyper-V and have no issues backing up running inside an XP Professional SP3 guest with BESR 2010 9.0.2.

Is the XP system you're backing up a fresh install and not a physical-to-virtual migration? SP3?

[criley]

On item (1), yes, if you could pin down the anwer on that licensing question it woudl be useful to me.

I've just had it confirmed that you only need 1 BESR server license if you are ONLY installing BESR on the host machine. As mentioned previously, if you backup this way, you cannot restore individual files from the guests.

Hope that answers all your questions.

[dale_m1]

Cpontus –

Thank you for your input.  That is very interesting.  Just to confirm – you’re saying that you have installed BESR 2010 9.0.2 on the actual XP/SP3 guest and have successfully been able to run backups using BESR 2010 V9.0.2?  Have you attempted any restore exercises? 

To answer your question, yes, the XP VM I am trying to backup is a fresh install of XP/SP3 and integration services are of course installed.  I am also using V9.0.2.  The host is Windows Server 2008 R2 Hyper-V.  It sounds like we have the same arrangement all around. 

I may have to pursue this further.  The Symantec documentation describes limitations regarding XP backups when performing a full server backup from a host with XP guests, but says little if anything about direct installs of BESR to an XP guest VM.

If anyone else has successfully done this I would be curious to hear.

Thank you 

[dale_m1]

Chris,

Thanks for taking time to track that down. 

So, installing BESR on only the host requires only one license.  This will allow me to back up whatever guest VMs may be resident on the box, albeit with the limited restore granularity inherent in this type of backup.  Whereas installing BESR directly to any individual guest VM will require that specific VM to be appropriately licensed.

Thank You

[dale_m1]

Following up on the matter of doing a direct install of BESR 2010 to an XP/SP3 VM running on Hyper-V host...

Today I created a new Win7/64 VM on this same host machine.  Immediately after running all Windows updates I installed BESR 2010 directly to this VM and ran a backup to a NAS - this worked fine - no problems.  I noted that I had not yet installed Symantec Endpoint Protection (SEP 11) on the Win7 VM.  In light of this I uninstalled SEP 11 from the XP/SP3 VM and tried running a BESR backup from it.  This time, for the first time, it worked.  I have not had time to test things any further, but this at least suggests that there is an issue with having SEP 11 and BESR 2010 co-resident on the same VM - at least insofar as XP VMs are concerned.  In all previous attempts to run a BESR backup from an XP VM the process would simply hang at some percentage of completion - anywhere from 10 or 15% up to about 50%.

[Markus_Koestler]

Have you filed a case for this issue ?

[Markus_Koestler]

Any news here ?

[criley]

Markus,

I know you mean well, but it is very frustrating when you 'spam' a lot of threads in one go with comments such as 'any news here?'.

It means that any new/recent threads get pushed down the list and they can then get missed (all we now see is all the threads you have commented on).

As I said, I know you mean well but please refrain from doing this in the future.

Thanks.

[Markus_Koestler]

Sorry, I'Ll stop that from now on.