Mayhem & SSR2013

[jtburnett]

1) I need some second (or 6th) opinions. I'm getting conflicting answers from the off-shore folks.

Let's say you back up incrementally, daily, with a new base monthly. You're in the middle of a new month running an incremental, when all of a sudden your door is broken down, and angry villagers spill in carrying torches & pitch-forks, pinning you to the floor, while unplugging your computer.

I reboot the computer, SSR asks if I want to run that (now) missed backup. It completes that incremental this time, and say's sucessful.

Is all goodf? I'm told "no big deal", and I'm told by another, "every incremental going forward from that point will be bad- the 'chain' will be broken."

2) This only happens with SSR2013 SP1, no other program on my system (some of which are resourse heavy), and it happens frequently. It never happens on a base, only an incremental, and it will only happen once that day (when you reboot to run it again, it won't do it twice that same day).

It causes auto-re-boots. I'll watch it get past that magic 6% point, then satisfied that everything is going fine, I'll go to the kitchen to get coffee. Several minuets later, I'll hear the familiar TaDa! Windows logon sound. This might happen every day, every other day, every week; the only constant is that it'll only do it once- never twice that particular incident.

• I always start the day with a fresh boot.
• I've never attempted to run other programs at the same time that SSR is backing up.
• I have a power plan I use for SSR that's set to never shut down the drives, yet the monitor sleeps after 10 minutes of inactivity.
• I've run both the Windows memmory test, and Memtest86+ (6 hours!) in the boot environment.
• I've checked for overheating issues (GPU & CPU)
• My power supply wattage is 650.

Does this recurring scenario ring any bells?

Thank you

.

[criley]

So are you saying that the machine is rebooting itself during an incremental backup?

If that is the case, the 'chain' may well be broken at that point. To confirm this, you would need to check the incremental (.iv2i file) for that date/time to see if it is corrupt (double click the file to open it into the recovery point browser to check it).

It depends at what point the machine rebooted. If it was early on during the backup, there's a good chance the file never got created. If that is the case, the chain will not be affected.

Ultimately the reboot issue needs investigating

[jtburnett]

Thank you Chris,

Yes, it'll auto re-boot during an incremental only. When it gets back to desktop, there's never a red X in the event viewer, it just shows up iconically as a missed backup. I can then rerun it, and it reports 'sucessful.' It'll do this quite often, but never twice in the same day (say it reboots; you rerun the missed incremental; it'll never do it again that session).

I used the RP Browser, restored some files from a day that I know it re-booted, they were fine.

As far as why, I can't think of anything else to try. I've tried testing memmory, heat, power supply. All seem good.

Thank you

[TRaj]

You said it happens for SSR 2013 SP1 only , so do you mean this never happened for base SSR 2013 ? or SSR 2011 ?

Have you checked the "event logs" after a reboot during an incremental run , is there any other event running or what is the behaviour of the machine Server / Desktop after a reboot ?

[criley]

First thing I would recommend is to update to SP2 (http://www.symantec.com/docs/TECH214768). A reboot is required.

If this does not help, you should check the system/application event logs to see what events are shown around the time of the auto-reboot.

[jtburnett]

No, I meant it to say is that it does it on incrementals only- never when it creates a new base; and that this seems to be the only program, my mistake- they're called 'Apps' now, that causes this reboot problem.

I boot fresh every morning. On 1st boot, it'll do it. After whatever's causing the auto-reboot, It'll never do it. 

It's done it before SR1, and going back all the way to NGST15, even though I'm told this isn't Ghost (maybe a close cousin then?).

Why I never thought to look in the Windows Event Viewer is troubling, I always just looked in the SSR Console's Event Log. :)

I'll check it out at the next time it happens to see if I see if there's anything waving a flag at that exact time. Right now, looking through there, nothing sticks-out as being obvious.

Thanks to all!

[TRaj]

hhhmm so you have switched from Ghost to SSR

You can try Service pack 2 for SSR as the technote shared by Chris and check the event logs and I will be eager to know if there is any flag waving saying hello it is me troubling you and not SSR..:P

Anyways jokes apart... will await for a response.

[jtburnett]

I'm to install that from the link that Chris sent me? It's not available yet on Live Update.

One more thing, I'm not sure if it's important or not, but i'd like to keep it in the thread.

​This usually happens when I run a manual incremental. I have my backups scheduled to run at 6:00AM. Normally the computer is on, booted to deskop, and the program starts, finishes, and everything is good.

But if I log on after 6:00, it's obviously a missed backup. I'm asked. ":do you want to run missed backups now?" It's this senario where it starts the backup and then self-reboots halfway through. When it get's to desktop again, it'll ask the same thing- this time it will run fine.

Final question (for now). I remember that I had a member of the escallation team's manager (Tech Engineer was U.S.based) walk me through gathering some SSR log to send to the technician. When the Tech got back to me, he said, "you have a lot going on in here." It seemed that the super-dooper, uber-magnificent special root uninstaller for NGST15 had left orphaned files and folders everywhere. He even had to manually remove tons of keys in the Registry. That problem was solved- NGST15 remnants were conflicting with SSR.

So the question is, can't these logs be looked at by someone? If so, how? It seems whenever I submitt a case, an offshore employee will remotely connect, make sure there are no wonky programs  on the machine, set a Chkdsk/r at next boot, and initiate a Defrag on the C:\ drive. For years this has alway's been their solution. I'm not trying to 'throw them under the bus;, they're eager to help, polite, and nothing but nice, but the 10's upon 10's of hours I've wasted over the years! I ask for a escallation member, but I never get one. I'm assumming Symantec doesn't want to tie up such resources with home users?

Thanks again

[criley]

I'm to install that from the link that Chris sent me? It's not available yet on Live Update.

Yes, that's correct. As the article states, SP2 wont be available on LiveUpdate for around 2 weeks after the release of SP2 (sometime next week I believe). You can however download and install the patch before then.

Logs can be looked at (you need a support case for this) but really updating to SP2 should be your first port of call to see if it helps.

[jtburnett]

Yesterday, I ran a scheduled incremental. Everything fine, took 4 

minuets. Today I missed that scheduled time, and ran a manual 'missed' 

incremental.

It took aoround 5 minuets to get to 94% complete, with 1 Second left, and 

didn't 'freeze' per se, but it just stopped, like it was caught in an endless loop (SSR's; Console 'Show Progress' window showed activity ) It'll go from 94% to 81 to 94 to 93 to 94 to 92 etc.

I thought, okay, maybe for some odd reason, it finds a need to do a compare. I let it run for 3 hours- it still is. The only change from yesterday was 2 added bookmarks.

The C;\ drive, where I have the O.S., completed in about 2 minuets. The D;\ drive, which I pretty much use just as archival, is what's now causing SSR to have problems.

In my daily, upon daily, upon weekly, upon weekly, upon monthly, upon mothly, upon yearly, upon yearly problems, I have never, ever, ever, never, never had an incremental take more than mere seconds on the D:/ drive. This just happened after installing R2.

So now what? A Chkdsk/r aint gonna happen; I've done that too many times.

Thank you

[TRaj]

Well I would again ask if you check the behaviour in "Event logs" , do they imply anything.

Also will suggest a backup schedule to be changed for test purpose from 6am to 7am.

However the 94% hangs is because the "History" doesn't get updated. Is your incremental stuck at "Upadating History" ? . This could also be because you are missing some recovery points and it still shows up in "Manage backup Destination". Deleting old - recovery points might help or deleting the enteries of the recovery points which are not available on the destination but show up under Manage backup destination

Use the tools --> edit backup-location and cleanup all non existing backup points.

Check the below two links , however I will request you to try atlest moving the schedule from 6am to 7am if not even a minute change or half hour difference may help!

http://www.symantec.com/docs/TECH62474

http://www.symantec.com/docs/TECH139416

We have not checked with the OS on which SSR is installed , can you define one please.

With your questions

Final question (for now). I remember that I had a member of the escallation team's manager (Tech Engineer was U.S.based) walk me through gathering some SSR log to send to the technician. When the Tech got back to me, he said, "you have a lot going on in here." It seemed that the super-dooper, uber-magnificent special root uninstaller for NGST15 had left orphaned files and folders everywhere. He even had to manually remove tons of keys in the Registry. That problem was solved- NGST15 remnants were conflicting with SSR.

So the question is, can't these logs be looked at by someone? If so, how? It seems whenever I submitt a case, an offshore employee will remotely connect, make sure there are no wonky programs  on the machine, set a Chkdsk/r at next boot, and initiate a Defrag on the C:\ drive. For years this has alway's been their solution. I'm not trying to 'throw them under the bus;, they're eager to help, polite, and nothing but nice, but the 10's upon 10's of hours I've wasted over the years! I ask for a escallation member, but I never get one. I'm assumming Symantec doesn't want to tie up such resources with home users?

As Chris has already mentioned this could be looked upon later after a case is logged , and you can anytime ask them to escalate the case , I am sure they will escalate it for you once asked.

Also Symantec surely wants to tie up resources with home users and no Company wants their businees to be only for Enterprise and needs growth... We only need your co-operation as we can become better only after we make mistakes.
 

[criley]

Can you please try another manual incremental to see if that problem was a one-off? Ideally after restarting the machine (if possible).

If you still see the same problem, I would recommend you open a support case so this can be investigated in more detail. This type of issue cannot really be worked on via these forums.

[jtburnett]

Thank you TRag! :)

 I've done what you and Chris  suggested. Yes, I think it was 'stuck' at updating historty- thanks so much, I never knew that could cause that.

So far it hasn't self-rebooted, or hung. Nothing in the Win Even Viewer stuck out though, when I looked through it when it wouldn't go past 94%.

I've deleted that backup job, all recovery Points, defined a new job, and ran a new base. After 17 hours (lots of data on 3 drives) it reported sucessful. We'll see what happens.

I didn't intend to be rude about the escallation thing. I apologize if I offended.

Thanks to all! Talk about a learning curve! Yes, I've  read the manual. :)

[jtburnett]

Jumping from the very last post up here- you're turn.

I started-up the computer late, intentionally, so to get a missed backup. It had been off all night- fresh boot.

It created a manual incremental in 4:00 minuets sucessfully. I'll keep watch for a while, and then hand-out 'Marked As Solution' awards to you & TRaj. 

[jtburnett]

Yesterday I ran a missed incremental; it was fine.

Today I intentionally turned on the computer past the schedled time to run another.

It started, reported 12 minuets left, and hung hard. I rebooted, it was still shown as a missed backup. I ran it a 2nd time, and it finished. This is the same exact senario that I started this thread with.

Things I know:

• Both manual & auto base backups run fine.
• Auto incrementals run fine.
• Manual incrementals are anyone's guess whether or not they'll finish without self reboots, hard hangs, BSD's.
• If it does have to be rebooted, or if it does it itself, the 2nd attempt at a missed backup always completes.

Win Event Viewer > Application- had no warnings or errors this day.

Win Event Viewer > System- showed the Unexpected Shutdown. Pic aatached. Googled the code, but found nothing.

Now what?

Thank you

[jtburnett]

Today I ran a scheduled incremental. Never had problems with those. Only difference now is R2. It didn't complete- didn't hang the system like yesterday, it caused a self boot. After re-attempting to run the job. It ran to completion the 2nd time. I don't know what it means, but it's consistant- the 2nd attempt being ok thing. Details of self reboot attached.

[TRaj]

Hi jtburnett,

How much time did the successful incremental take ?

It seems you looked only at the System log , please let know if the Application log and the reboot are around the same time.

The System log for 02-03-2014 shows a Error at 8am and later a Warning. What is the description for the Error and Warning message.

The System log for 03-03-2014 shows a Warning first and later a Error message at 7am. What is the description for both,

Are these logs and the SSR log running by the same time ? May be SSR is not related to the self reboot ?Are we missing something ?

[jtburnett]

The sucessful one took 10 minuets.

There are no warnings or errors in the Windows > Aplication log.

The warning was that an Ethernet cable was unplugged; I only use wireless.

The error was the Unexpected Shutdown flag.

Logs running at same time? I'm not sure what you mean. I only have this one computer. I'd guess yes??

I did find this warning (pic below) that preceeds some (not at the exact time though) unexpected shutdowns, and I see a lot of these errors. I don't use bitlocker. I have home Premium. I did have Ultimate on here 2 years ago, but after reinstalling the O.S. (lost USB control), I never activated it again.

Today I got a BSD- bugcheck: X0000000A.- IRQ Not Less Than Zero. This is the most common bugcheck I get when it acts up. The warning shown below was 11 minuets into the backup before it crashed.

2nd attempt okay.

[jtburnett]

One thing I've neglected to mention. Symantec's 'official' findings are that 4K sector drives are fine for destinations (only). This is a WD 4T 4K sector- non Advanced drive, used only for backups (destination). I wonder if this could be the whole problem? I don't remember having this particular problem when I was backing up to a 2TB drive, which I believe are Advanced Formatt by design.

So...I guess the next logical step is to run a backip job (same trhing- base + incrementals) to a non 4K drive. I'll report back in a bit what I've found. And here I thought I'd be bored when I was retired. Bwa-HaHaHa!

[TRaj · Accepted solution]

Hi ,

Hows the backup job working after changing the destination to non - 4K sector drive.

Meanwhile , I checked with the screen shot and received the solution for the warning message to be

"I seemed to have fixed it thanks to the link you posted in your last response. WUDFRd is a service and it is called "Windows Driver Foundation - User-mode Driver Framework".
Windows Administration - What Is wudfsvc and wudfsvc.dll

I went into services.msc and looked at Windows Driver Foundation - User-mode Driver Framework, it was set to manual, but under "Status" it was off. I plugged in a USB and the status changed to "Started".

I changed the startup type to "Automatic", shut down the PC, restarted, checked to see that it was still set to automatic and that it was started. Plugged in a USB and no error code, plugged in another USB and no error code. Shut down, started again, checked again and no error code.

If you change Windows Driver Foundation - User-mode Driver Framework to automatic start let me know if it works for you. Also before you change it the service has to be stopped. For some reason you can not stop it after it has started so you need to boot your PC and before you do anything go into services.msc and change it before it has started. Your PC may let you stop it, but mine would not.

Check this link : http://www.sevenforums.com/drivers/268212-driver-driver-wudfrd-failed-load-device-error.html

I forgot the OS you are trying to work with as it is for Win 7

and for the second screen shot , check this : https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=152105.0

both seem to be an issues for Windows 7 Premium.