Symantec recently re-split

Symantec recently re-split off backup and storage management products back to Veritas again (including SSR).  Symantec now has no backup products, and all future support and sales are now through Veritas.  SSR is really a glorified Ghost product, which was originally a Norton (Symantec) consumer product.  The merger with Veritas merged support for Backup Exec and more Enterprise products with "consumer" products like Ghost.  Symantec stopped supporting Ghost to concentrate on SSR, Backup Exec, and other storage products.  Now that we are back under Veritas, will they continue to support SSR or phase it out?  I think SSR provides a product for small business and consumers that don't want  or need all the Backup Exec features, complexity, and cost.  It can also scale larger.  Restore anywhere, fast speed, and simplicity make the product very desirable  I think the shift of the product back to Veritas is why there is such a support delay to be compatible with Microsoft's premier operating system, although there was also a lag in support of SSR and Windows Server 2012. Time will tell if the product is dropped, which would be a loss for many users.

Just to add a couple of

Just to add a couple of points if you haven't read all the earlier posts.

 

There are two parts to the SRD Creator Wizard working under Windows 10.

Once you have made the Compatibility Mode change - that will enable the SRD Creator Wizard to run.

You may find, like my laptop - absolutely no issues and that Typical Mode SRD disk creation works and the iso when burnt to a disk - boots flawlessly.

However, you may also find (like my desktop that seemingly has always needed Advanced Mode SRD disk creation) - when the iso is burnt to a disk and then run it will fail with a missing dll oledlg.dll.

So if you find that you need to run SRD Creation in Advanced mode - then any disk created will likely fail with the oledlg.dll missing error.

The solution is to apply the above simple fix and then re-run the SRD Creation in Advanced mode again - thereafter all disks will be created including the dll oledlg.dll - thereby allowing a working SRD disk to be created.

I have done a full Image backup  and a later SRD disk Image Restore from that Windows 10 backup  and te procedure works flawlessly.

Obviously there are no absolute guarantees - but if you wish to be able to build a current SRD disk under Windows 10 - then I would be applying the workaround to enable the SRD Creator Wizard - and then if you find that you need to use Advanced mode (Typical mode will fail with Errors ECA3232B & ECA3232C.) - then apply the simple fix to the missing oledlg.dll once you have confirmed that any SRD disk produced in Advanced mode is missing that dll at present.

I prefer to restore a Windows 10 Backup Image using SSR 2013 R2.SP3 under a Windows 10 SRD boot disk- rather than under a Windows 8.1 SRD disk. Since SSR 2013 R2 is only Windows 8.1 certified at present all  functions used will be restricted to Windows 8.1 Compatibility so running under Windows 10 should make no real difference - excepting, should I so wish it, I have any Windows 10 specific program available to me that way - should I need it.

 

 

Aren't you reversiong the 32

Aren't you reversiong the 32 bit and 64 bit versions of oledlg.dll in the instructions above? Also, When I run the SRD creation now, it is finding that all my drivers are later than the operating system (I assume it now thinks it is Windows 8) so it says it won't load them and then fails the SRD creation because critical drivers are newer than expected.

It sounds like you are

It sounds like you are running in Typical mode - which is having issues with the driver revisions.

In that case I recommend you installing the current Microsoft ADK-8.1  and running in Advanced mode since Typical mode has failed.

The simple fix for missing oledlg.dll is simply to add the 32-bit version of that dll into the 32-bit OS template area and the 64-bit oledlg.dll into the 64-bit OS template area so that those files are always included - with their type of OS as it is built. Only the selected OS tmplate area will be included with an SRD build.

The 64-bit OS will always include the 64-bit oledlg.dll so that the EULA will display properly.

The file being added is the same one the procedure selects during Typical SRD mode - so I have made sure to include this in Advanced Mode as it is a required file for the SRD EULA. display. Why the SRD Wizard does not already include makes no sense ? - I suspect an oversight by Symantec for Advanced mode.

I am basically adding the file that the Symantec program needs to properly display the EUA - without which the SRD disk is useless.

When I run the SRD Creator Wizard in Advanced Mode I am basically accepting all the defaults - 64-bit OS, English langauge, default selecton of drivwers needed so that all the drivers chosen are compatible with the ADK drivers.

If you are selecting anything other than the drivers it needs - then you will need to make sure that they are compatible with Windows 10 OS - which is created with the latest ADK.

{Post-edit. I realized I didn't specifically answer your question - I am running under 64-bit Windows OS - and the dll that ended up on the disk in Typical mode was the version of the file in the system32 directory so that was the file copied. the 64-bit equivalent. The naming of those directories is in fact counter-intuitive. system32 directory is for 64-bit files the SYSWOW64 directory is for 32-bit files.  See http://www.samlogic.net/articles/32-64-bit-windows-folder-x86-syswow64.htm for an explanation of sorts.)

 

 

Thanks for the clarification

Thanks for the clarification on the location of the 64 and 32 bit files.  I never knew that!  Bottom line, the SRD works usiing your process, but I am still getting the error on my Intel PCI network card with the drivers that Windows 10 downloaded last week that I could not stop (Microsoft Update). It is still saying they aren't being put in the SRD becasue they are a later version (I am using the Advanced creation, with the ADK).  Nonetheless, I guess some basic Micorosft drivers are loaded, and the network is working.  Thanks for your help.

First off, any company would

First off, any company would be, frankly, stupid to ignore their desktop-level backup solutions market.  I'll admit I never understood why Sytmantec had such an overlap between SSR for servers and Backup Exec, especially when they started putting broader enteprrise management into the SSR platform.  To this day I still don't fully understand.  BE works with tape drives, SSR does not, and SSR is not intended for things like SAN arrays and all this stuff but that doesn't address the vast majority of small businesses that only havce basic server deployments. 

 

Anyway, the one thing I can say about Symantec's backup products, now Veritas again (but who really cares as it'll be years before they show that they've really two different companies), is that they have always been slow as hell to keep up.  I don't know why, but they have.  Because of this, as an IT services provider we've had to actually steer away from certain Microsoft deployment objectivecs.  For example when they didn't support Windows Server 2012 as a media server when it was first released, on new server deployments that would be a BE media server, we had no choice but to go with Server 2008 R2 and then do costly upgrade/migration work after the fact.  This is a tough sell with customers who then ask us why are their infrastructure decisions being dictated by a backup software company. 

 

And now we have this Windows 10 thing, which is certainly another example of the above and has a direct impact on customers, not to mention indirect or direct impact on us Symantec partners.   

 

Potentially the argument could be made that the reason other vendors like Arconis have adapted their products to be Windows 10 compatible so quickly is that perhaps they're taking risks, cutting corners, implementing non-standardized approaches, or whatever and Symantec is taking the time to do all those things right.  Who knows.  But you can't argue with the end result which is that to the customer, Symantec is taking way too long to release a product everyone else seems to be able to do without issue, and Symantec in theory has the resources to be FRIST to market.  Yet they're the last. 

 

This reality should prompt some fundamental changes in the development cycles for these products but unfortunately whatever factors affected the decisions for Windows 10 seemed to also be present for Server 2012 a few years ago too so appears to be systemic in the organization.  However I don't advocate simply firing people, as that's the stuipd approach.  The best approach is to encourage positive improvement that results in go-to-market strategies that show Symantec/Vertias leadership in their respective offerings. 

 

But the clock is ticking.  I hear it a lot from fellow and associated IT providers that they are seeking alternatives to Symantec for both data protection and data security - at a rate that I have not seen in the past.  So as independent testing and market analysis reprots are released revealing Symantec's slipping market share, there will likely be a net reduction in market share that ultimately leads to Veritas and/or Symantec being acquired by another big player, perhaps Microsoft, who themsevlves really do need to improve their representation in both spaces. 

 

Just my 2 cents. 

Mixit, Nice story

Mixit,

 

Nice story but.....Symantec is too late to take action on Windows 10, this will cost them a lot of subscribers!
As you mentioned there are many persons/providers who are lookig for alternatives, on this moment there are good products for data protection and security available for working with Windows 10!

Regards, Eusie

@DigiDave I think the most

@DigiDave

I think the most useful thing that came out of the SRD Template file location manipulation - to define which files will be included in the boot system - so that if there are other utilities that you would like to have included - you can similarly place the wanted files in the template area - and these will then automatically be included in the built system image.

For the network card that the build process rejected the latest drivers - did it though still include other drivers for that card - despite that error ? It sounds as if the error you are receiving is a warning and that the process continues on and finally produces an iso file to burn to disk ?

You will still have the option of enabling additional driver files once in the SRD environment - although I would expect that for driver files excluded you would then not find copies of those excluded files in the SRD envioronment ?

 

...and the changes I have made to enable that functionality are minimal - basically remove the OS prohibition set by Symantec to disable OS > Windows 8.1 with SRD Creator Wizard.

and the forced inclusion of the environment specific version of oledlg.dll - something missed out of Advanced mode by Symantec as it is included with a successful Typical Mode SRD build.

I checked the SRD, and the

I checked the SRD, and the driver that I got the following warning was not included:

"The following Network and Storage drivers available on this computer are of later version than the operating system version 6.3 of your recovery disk. Hence, these drivers will not be added to recovery disk. Do you want to continue?

-   Intel(R) PRO/1000 PCI Express Network Connection Driver D"

The SRD has a bunch of Microsoft generic network drivers, so I assume one of those works.  As you say, I could customize the SRD, but it is working good enough until Symantec fixes all of these compatibility issues.  Thanks so much for your good advice and help!

Like many others I can be

Like many others I can be counted as one who has left the Symantex fold and gone to another backup solution. I did this reluctantly having been a loyal customer of their products since the Peter Norton days.

If they cannot, or will not, provide a Windows 10 solution that works as it should without having to resort to work arounds then how can they be trusted with something as critical as my data backup needs.

This should have been ready to go on Windows 10 day one and not force customers to wait until they get around to it in December.

Shame on you Symantec.

First, Chris does outstanding

First, Chris does outstanding work on this forum. I would probably not still be a customer without his support here. Hope that continues after October 3rd.

I have a few questions related to my move to  Windows 10 and my proposed workaround.

Like many, I will be on windows 10 before SSR2013 is updated in December.  Am I correct in thinking that I can still use the “cold boot” disc to make backups (of course complete backups, not incremental) and if I need to restore before the program is updated that I can do a cold boot restore?  Although I will if I have to, I prefer not to use non-Symantec authorized work-arounds for something like a backup/restore.  To me, this seems cleaner if it will work.

Along with Windows 10,  I will also be moving to a Z170 motherboard with an UEFI Bios and an NVMe M.2 SSD drive.  The new bios is totally new to me and I think it impacts my backups and restores.  What options in SSR or my jobs do I need to set?   Does this change my ability to do a “cold boot” backup/restore?

Finally, I asked this question of my support person (twice) but have not received a reply or call back.  I will be installing SSR on Windows 10 on a new PC.  If my reading of an old forum post is correct I don’t really need to deactivate or do anything with the old program on the old hard drive before I shut it down for good? I just install the new program on my new motherboard/drive/windows 10 (when it is read) and key in my same serial number?  Is this correct?

 

Thanks,

BJB

 

 

@BJB,  I am not sure what you

@BJB,  I am not sure what you mean by the "cold boot" disc - but since you are proposing to move to a new UEFI bios based motherboard - then there are no guarantees that your previous SRD boot disc *the Symantec generic boot disc" ?) will even boot in that new environment.

As well, once you boot into Windows 10 on that new motherboard then you will be unable to have your previous license even recognized without at least installing the Symantec workaround (no matter how much you seem to despise workarounds) to have the SSR2013 R2.SP3 software run properly under Windows 10 which will also allow you to perform system image backups (but no restores as you don't have a guranteed SRD boot disk).

Since you do not wish to use any workarounds then you will not be able to generate a new SRD boot disk that most likely will work with the new motherboard as Symantec has chosen not to also re-enable the SRD Wizard so as to allow it to also run under Windows 10. And even if you did choose to enable the SRD Wizard there is also the possibility that the Typical mode SRD disk creation may fail - in which case the Symantec recommended workaround (that word again!) is to attempt the creation in Advanced mode (will first need to install Microsoft ADK-8.1) - but then there is every possibility that the SRD boot disk will be missing a key oledlg.dll file which will fail at the EULA as Symantec does not yet have a sanctioned Windows 10 environment.

Now there is the possibility that the previous Symantec generic cold boot disk might work - in which case it might just be able to restore backups should you choose to install the Symantec Windows 10 license workaround.

Despite being aware of Windows 10 being available as from July this year Symantec has chosen to instead implement disabling code within SSR 2013 R2 release so as to prevent SSR 2013 R2 running on any Operating system release after Windows 8.1. It was only when CJM made publically know the easy workaround to bypass that disabling code that Symantec then released their own "approved workaround" to allow Windows 10 backups to continue.

But not restores. Unless you already have a suitable SRD boot disk Symantec's official position is that Windows 10 support will be available in December - and that until then, should you choose to ignore their diktat, and go ahead and install Windows 10 there will be no support and any support calls logged will be summarily closed.

So you now have a choice - install one "official" workaround to disable part of the Symatec code aimed at preventing SSR 2013 R2 even running under Windows 10 - or choose to also remove the code preventing the SRD Creator Wizard running under Windows 10 too.

Then you can find out whether you will be able to create your own SRD succesfully under Windows 10 in Typical mode - or if you will need Advanced mode SRD Creation and the third of the "workarounds" to fix an error in the Advanced mode SRD creation that Symantec has been aware of since April this year and still does not have a fix.

Workaround 1 - Bypass the Symantec lockout of the SSR 2013 R2 Service running under Windows 10. This lockout prevents existing paid-for-licenses operating under Windows 10

Workaround 2 - Bypass the Symantec lockout of the SRD Creator Wizard running under Windows 10. This lockout prevents the SRD Creator Wizard being run under Windows 10.

Workaround 3 - Correct an error in SSR 2013 R2 Advanced Mode SRD Creation that fails to include the oledlg.dll file being included in the SRD boot image. Since that file oledlg.dll is always required by the Symantec EULA executable srdeula.exe its guaranteed inclusion simply corrects an existing Symantec defect.

 

 

 

Your reply has been queued

Your reply has been queued for moderation ?

Since when did we need moderation in these forums ?

Or did I not mention the S

Or did I not mention the S word this time so my reply is therefore allowed through ?

 

@BJB - I have replied in a lengthy post but it is "being moderated" as I must have used one of the special words.

In very basic terms

Your license will not be recognised under  the newest OS without implementing one of the workarounds that partially bypasses the W10 lockout code

The W10 lockout code also prevents the SRD Creator Wizard from running.

With W10 it also seems as if Advanced mode SRD creation is needed - which has problem due to a missing dll - oledlg.dll

The 3rd workaround will fix that missing dll issue fully.

So if you want to use your new PC with W10 - then either also implement the license workaround - or live with it until Dec when S state that W10 support will be allowed.

 

.. and regarding the "cold boot disc" which I am guessing is the S. created generic SRD boot disk - then no guarantees - you have the latest UEFI Bios - no gurantees that it will boot on that early version.

You would be best to have a current SRD disc - if you choose to also bypass the W10 lockout on the SRD Creator Wizard - then you can determine for yourself whether you can create SRD boot disks under W10. If you are fortunate then Typical mode SRD boot disk creation will work - and then it will be functional - to the limits of the W8.1 OS - which is when this code was originally developed. If Typical mode fails - then the S. recommended solution is to use Advanced mode - but then you will likely need to implement the 3rd workaround to fix the missing dll - oledlg.dll that is left off the SRD disk in Advanced mode.

The alternative choice is for you to just implement W8.1 and wait until you are allowed to try W10 in December this year.

..or do what myself and a number of others have done - implement the 3 workarounds and have fully functional W10 access - just no support.  (when you consider that 2 of the workarounds are to remove an imposed lockout on W10 by their developer - and the 3rd workadound fixes an inherent bug ) - if you can support yourself until the new version is out then great - else then choose to wait.

Of course - if you are in a commercial environment supporting 100's of PC's - then you cannot afford to upgrade any of those PC's until you have full W10 Support - supposed to be in Dec this year.

 

weff, Thanks a lot for your

weff,

Thanks a lot for your input.  I now understand that the "fixes" are not just for the windows-based environment but for even getting to a cold boot disk environment. 

Thanks again,

BJB
 

weff, Thanks again. And by

weff,

Thanks again.

And by "cold boot" I meant the Symantec Recovery Disc (SRD).

BJB
 

Hi folks this form is so long

Hi folks this form is so long I apologize for not reading EVERY post.

In short when is Windows 10 going to be supported?

I have a version of 2013 that works with 8.1 but aparently does not work with 10.

Im getting the issue with the license not being valid after upgrading and called support who said I need to upgrade yet its no out yet and worse yet when it is likely ready it will not be under Symantec but Veritas as the System Recovery is now under the BACKUP division http://www.symantec.com/page.jsp?id=announcing-the-new-veritas 

Ive been over a MONTH with no backups now and I am starting to get freaked out. Is there anything like ghost out there TODAY that supports windows 10 Symantec/Veritas apparently does not want my money. 

Hi, after I installed Service

Hi,

after I installed Service Pack 3 onto SSR 2013 R2 (11.1.2) I ended up with INACCESSIBLE_BOOT_DEVICE on WIN10. WIN10 was upgraded from Windows 8.1 where I had SSR 2013R2 11.1.2 installed.

The WIN10 error did not recover and I had to restore the Partitions (100MB and 111GB SSD), fortuantelly this worked booting with a SSR Recovery Disk. CHKDSK, SFC SCANNOW, Safe Boot, ... did not help. 

Installing the full SSR 2013 R2 11.1.3 over 11.1.2 results in the same unrecoverable failure on reboot after the successfull upgrade.

I know that WIN10 ist not yet supported, I just want to make aware of this problem.

If Symantec has an explanation or fix in this situation (INACCESSIBLE_BOOT_DEVICE) please let me know.

Hopefully we will see a new Service Pack for WIN10 support and the problem is gone than.

Regards

Martin

That is not what I would have

That is not what I would have expected to happen !

I already had SSR 2013 R2 SP3 installed, prior to upgrading to Windows 10 - so have not encountered that error.

Are you sure that you didn't apply some other change at the same time too ? - because this is not something I've seen reported here since Windows 10 was released.

I also do not understand why that error should occur as I would not have though that SSR 2013 R2 SP3 upgrade installation should even have impacted in this area is not like it is impacting on the boot devices.

However, if you have booted the newly upgraded environment (without applying the needed fixes) - then if as part of the install procedure S_mantec replace the boot device with one of their own (in order to allow image copies) - without the workarounds being applied to enable the SSR background service fully under Windows 10 - then it may be that INACCESSBLE_BOOT_DEVICE is the result.

No guarantees - but if you did want to try again - you need to apply the CJM workaround on the SSR service so that it will run under Windows 10 - as it is S_mantec introduced code to prevent the service running under any OS > W8.1. You need to ensure that SSR 2013 R2 service is running properly  before trying to reboot - else you may end up in same situation. If you are able to open SSR 2013 R2 Gui (even if you haven't loaded a license yet) then you should be able to boot successfully afterwards.

You should also be able to apply all the fixes under SSR 2013 R2.SP2 version - I am not sure exactly what key code changes SP3 has that you may need - the fixes need to be applied each time you upgrade until V_ritas decide to release a W10 version.

I did not run into any

I did not run into any problems upgrading to Windows 10.  I did not have SSR LightsOutRestore enabled, but I wondered if that could cause problems with an OS upgrade like this.  I don't think it matters to Windows the version of SSR you are running.  If it is out of date, it just won't work under Windows 10 without the "fixes" described in this thread, or until Symantec supports it.