here's what I need to do, how do I do it?

[Richard_FDisk]

I have a few "Aged"  PC's (windows [various versions] ) which I would like to image the disk(s) and restore to faster & larger disk(s),

one of which is a win2000 PC with an 8GB WD Caviar that's 9 years old with a 3GB C:\ partition (this is a squeeze at best)
 - with a little bit of know how & some partition fudging I was able to remove a fair amount of data yet still leaving it linked to the C:\ disk
 - adjusting the remaining 5GB into 1 partition for the page file & 1 for the data I removed but linked back to the original folder through a mount/junction point
 - there is an old copy of  Veritas BESR4.4x (before Symantec acquired the product)  on the machine but it's very tedious to use as it only uses tapes and they're getting old and untrustworthy

I need to cold image the drive (boot from floppy or CD and get image) so I can restore it to a new disk,
it's not that I don't trust the current disk, just that there's no space,

I only have BESR 6.5x installed on my newest machine
is it possible to take the drive out and install it into the BESR 6.5x  machine and get an image that will work?
or
if not, then what do I need to get to do the cold image without having to install anything?

[marcogsp]

Assuming your licensing is in order....You can cold image with the version 8 and higher SRD, but obviously not with the lower versions.  Your idea to attach the drives to your BESR 6.5 machine should work, as long as you change the jumper settings on the drive to make it a secondary drive.  You don't want to accidently boot to the drive you want to image.  I've imaged drives in this manner with an external SATA docking station, so it should work with older drive technology as well.

[pfx82]

The version would have the specifically 8.5 SRD with a valid license for Backup Exec System Recovery.
Do-able? It is not an impossible task.

[marcogsp]

Richard -- pfx82 is correct abot the cold imaging capability becoming available  in version 8.5.  Mea Culpa.  The cold imaging feature does require a valid license key to be enabled, since it is disabled by default on the version 8.5 and higher SRD. I'd like to be able to reproduce your scenario in my lab, like I did for you once before.  However, I'm testing a data conversion scenario this week, so my lab equipment is tied up.

pfx82 -- Thanks for pointing out the error in my original reply.  I've had my assumptions proven both wrong and right in this forum, and I'm sure it won't be the last time.  I can think of several freely available products that could definitely accomplish Richard's goal, but I don't like to suggest them in this forum unless the Symantec product proves it can't do the job.  My experience suggests that this task is possible with version 6.5, but each persons installation is different,  so there is always a chance that something could go wrong.   Here at least, the original drives could be put back in the systems until another plan for drive cloning could be executed  If you are aware of an incidence where the version 6.x family of this product has has sucessfully accomplished this scenario, could you please outline it here? 

[Richard_FDisk]

I have the SRD for
6.5x
7.0x (2 versions)
8.0x (2 versions)
(all valid licenses, received during the first maintenance contract with the original purchase)

I shouldn't have any trouble with booting the wrong disk on my main machine as all the HDD's are SATA attached and the CD/DVD's are on the MB IDE channel and I have a secondary IDE channel attached to a PCI-e card so I know it wouldn't boot from there without the driver being installed on the disk

I do have an older (all IDE) secondary machine which I could do a temporary setup (fresh install of everything)
with the other disk, (one I want to image) installed as slave, (I've got tonnes of disks laying around to do the experimenting with)
(and that machine is easier to work on)
or I could put it into the server that I've already got the side open on
lots of options here

but I wouldn't be using the SRD, rather a hot backup with a live machine of a cold OS drive
my thoughts are to;
a> install disk
b> create backup image of said disk
c> remove disk
d> install newer / larger disk
e> create unformatted partitions
f> open BESR and do restore
g> install newer disk to the machine in question and attempting to boot

I remember reading somewhere in the old docs or sales pamphlet or something,
the following line:

"... with the power of GHOST integrated into BESR 6.5x, ..."

the old GHOST that I remember just booted from a floppy and cold copied sector by sector to the new drive
without concern of the contents only the 1's and the 0's, not imaging just an exact duplicate

I'm hoping to try this shortly,

my original  install of 6.5x  was the "complete" install
which I promptly had to disable the LUCOMS~1.exe (Live Update service)
because I never had any connection of any type except the electric plugs
and it would time out and take forever to do anything when opening the BESR console
because there was no internet capabilities

if necessary I could run the machine "super elevated"
I have tricks that allow me to log into the "System" account
without a password or the login / welcome screen (Though I won't post that here)
(Think: "Root" or "Act as part of the OS" type access)

My other thought is to buy an e-SATA cable and IDE-> e-SATA enclosure
and stick the disk in there, as I already have the e-SATA card installed

[tangent]
I don't trust USB2.0 attached disks, as I've had way too many problems
with frequent corruption of the data stream, no matter what size of disk,
usually copying files from the USB2.0 attached disk is not a problem (not always)
but copying files to the USB2.0 attached disk, frequently results in data corruption (most of the time)
and more so with larger files;  a 0.1 - 50KB file rarely gets corrupted
but a 5MB or larger file or group of files will almost always result in at least some corruption
even without an AV running
this is usually revealed by the following tests

> copy files to the USB disk
> open cmd window on the drive containing the files
> cd "the folder of the files"
> cd "the location of the files on the USB attached disk"
> FC/b *.* USB disk:*.*

here's what a screen would look like:

D:\> CD Transfers

D:\Transfers\> CD M:\Backup (enter)

D:\Transfers\>FC/b *.* M:*.* (enter)
comparing CDrivebackup.v21 and  M:CDrivebackup.v21
FC: No differences encountered

comparing CDrivebackup.bk!  and M:CDrivebackup.bk!
. . .
069C0992: 7C 00 < zeroed out here
069C0993: 6C 00 < and here
069C0994: FC FD < offset corruption
069C0995: 7F FF < offset corruption
069C0996: ED FD < offset corruption
069C0997: FE FF < offset
069C0998: 93 97 < offset
069C0999: 16 00 < zeroed out here
. . .

a corrupted copy usually showing offset corruptions and zeroed out bits

some files it's the entire file from address
0000000:
to the end of the file

other files it's one or two lines
- -
I'd rather use e-SATA anyway (much faster @ 1.5Gb/s and especially the PCI-e @ 3Gb/s)
[end tangent]

thanks all for replying

I'll do the testing in the not too distant future and post back the results

[hello_techs]

I've imaged drives in this manner with an external SATA docking station. It supports the old one also

[marcogsp]

I too have imaged drives with USB SATA docking stations without a hint of data lost in the transfer.  Then again, everyone's setup is different, so success can not be guaranteed in every environment.  My newest workstation has E-SATA ports and I have two new SATA docking stations that are E-SATA capable as well.  I haven't images any drives with this setup yet, but I'm confident it will work, if my experience with the USB version is any indicator

[Richard_FDisk]

I'd rather trust the e-SATA than the USB in my machine, (I just need an e-SATA box that will house an E-IDE disk)

I did a google search and it turned up a whole lot of USB-2 data corruption issues with a lot of different USB-2 chipsets
but none of the USB-1 or USB-1.1 were mentioned

I've picked up the most recent [chipset.inf ] installer for my board and I'll see if that helps the USB-2 Data corruption

I also was recently bombarded with the XP SP3 update
(I figured I'd test it since I know that I can restore no problem)

taking the image is one thing but I want to restore the cold image to a different larger disk
here's what it is;

machine to do the imaging
 Intel custom build:
-Intel DG965RY
-Core2Duo
-XP SP3
-BESR 6.52 (Desktop Edition)

image & Restore needed:
1>  Dell Dimension "L" Series win2k SP4 (10 year old 8GB E-IDE) C:\ on first 3GB of disk
 -> restored to newer 40GB or 80GB  HDD using 10-15GB Primary Partition for C:\

I wish it were a Win3.1x & DOS Disk  / Machine because I would simply copy the contents and it would work

I'm wondering if the cold OS will be seen by BESR as me attempting to backup & restore a dual boot system
because I'm attempting to image another OS partition rather than the currently loaded system

A-Ω

[Richard_FDisk]

I couldn't find any info about or get any answers before when I asked and searched about possible version compatibility issues between BESR 6.52 and Veritas BESR4.4 a really older version that came with a Seagate Tape drive that only backs up to the tape device

So I took an image with the older version (called then creating a disaster recovery set)
which involves:
a> creating a 6 disk boot floppy set from the win2k CD (this asks for the windows COA key)
b> backing up the entire system not just the OS & Programs but evey drive in the system to tape

after this was finished I installed with no conflicts  BESR 6.52 and proceeded to image the OS & Programs drive
because the versions are miles apart in the way they work each one ignores the other though I wouldn't attempt to take a backup simultaneously with both versions.
I then attemped to restore the system drive to the same disk with only one partition using the whole disk instead of the 3GB originally allocated for C:\:
it wouldn't boot (inaccessable boot device BSOD)
I had to use HDDErase (security erase program)  to make the disk appear as though it was a new never used disk
then I attempted the restore again, and the SRD said there was an uninitialized disk in the system. I told it to initialize the disk and restore,
which it did and then rebooted into windows

shortly after this the 40GB second disk failed with less than 1000 hours on it.
glad I restored to the 10 year old original disk rather than to the newer one as I had originally intended to do