Forum Discussion

jtburnett's avatar
jtburnett
Level 4
11 years ago

Mayhem & SSR2013

1) I need some second (or 6th) opinions. I'm getting conflicting answers from the off-shore folks.

Let's say you back up incrementally, daily, with a new base monthly. You're in the middle of a new month running an incremental, when all of a sudden your door is broken down, and angry villagers spill in carrying torches & pitch-forks, pinning you to the floor, while unplugging your computer.

I reboot the computer, SSR asks if I want to run that (now) missed backup. It completes that incremental this time, and say's sucessful.

Is all goodf? I'm told "no big deal", and I'm told by another, "every incremental going forward from that point will be bad- the 'chain' will be broken."

 

2) This only happens with SSR2013 SP1, no other program on my system (some of which are resourse heavy), and it happens frequently. It never happens on a base, only an incremental, and it will only happen once that day (when you reboot to run it again, it won't do it twice that same day).

It causes auto-re-boots. I'll watch it get past that magic 6% point, then satisfied that everything is going fine, I'll go to the kitchen to get coffee. Several minuets later, I'll hear the familiar TaDa! Windows logon sound. This might happen every day, every other day, every week; the only constant is that it'll only do it once- never twice that particular incident.

  • I always start the day with a fresh boot.
  • I've never attempted to run other programs at the same time that SSR is backing up.
  • I have a power plan I use for SSR that's set to never shut down the drives, yet the monitor sleeps after 10 minutes of inactivity.
  • I've run both the Windows memmory test, and Memtest86+ (6 hours!) in the boot environment.
  • I've checked for overheating issues (GPU & CPU)
  • My power supply wattage is 650.

Does this recurring scenario ring any bells?

 

Thank you

 

.

Backup and Recovery
Performance
SSR 2013
System Recovery
Troubleshooting
Windows 7
  • TRaj's avatar
    TRaj
    11 years ago

    Hi ,

    Hows the backup job working after changing the destination to non - 4K sector drive.

    Meanwhile , I checked with the screen shot and received the solution for the warning message to be

    "I seemed to have fixed it thanks to the link you posted in your last response. WUDFRd is a service and it is called "Windows Driver Foundation - User-mode Driver Framework".
    Windows Administration - What Is wudfsvc and wudfsvc.dll

    I went into services.msc and looked at Windows Driver Foundation - User-mode Driver Framework, it was set to manual, but under "Status" it was off. I plugged in a USB and the status changed to "Started".

    I changed the startup type to "Automatic", shut down the PC, restarted, checked to see that it was still set to automatic and that it was started. Plugged in a USB and no error code, plugged in another USB and no error code. Shut down, started again, checked again and no error code.

    If you change Windows Driver Foundation - User-mode Driver Framework to automatic start let me know if it works for you. Also before you change it the service has to be stopped. For some reason you can not stop it after it has started so you need to boot your PC and before you do anything go into services.msc and change it before it has started. Your PC may let you stop it, but mine would not.

    Check this link : http://www.sevenforums.com/drivers/268212-driver-driver-wudfrd-failed-load-device-error.html

    I forgot the OS you are trying to work with as it is for Win 7

    and for the second screen shot , check this : https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=152105.0

    both seem to be an issues for Windows 7 Premium.

  • jtburnett's avatar
    jtburnett
    11 years ago

    Hi TRaj,

    Yes, Win7 64 bit Premium.

    I never got as far as trying it on another hard drive, I was going to wait a few more day's before getting back here and putting this to bed, but I can do it now.I discovered what the problem was-although I’m not sure I want to share it! Egg on my face.

    When I first booted the computer up in the morning, and after it went to desktop, I’d wait approximately 15 minutes for the disk activity light to cease being solid, and settle down to just a flicker. Apparently this wasn’t long enough-there was some program still loading in the background, which was causing SSR problems, or maybe even SSR wasn’t fully loaded, even though it allowed me to start the incremental backup.

    One night I left the computer on, and found the next morning that it had backed up successfully. I then left the computer on for the rest of the week, and it backed up successfully each time. To think I’ve been banging my head against the desk for years, when this was the whole problem??

    So I now know what the solution is, but I still don’t know what the problem is that’s causing it. Again, I’d like to thank you and Chris for all the help, and especially for all the research you did on this.

22 Replies

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  • criley's avatar
    criley
    Moderator
    11 years ago

    So are you saying that the machine is rebooting itself during an incremental backup?

    If that is the case, the 'chain' may well be broken at that point. To confirm this, you would need to check the incremental (.iv2i file) for that date/time to see if it is corrupt (double click the file to open it into the recovery point browser to check it).

    It depends at what point the machine rebooted. If it was early on during the backup, there's a good chance the file never got created. If that is the case, the chain will not be affected.

    Ultimately the reboot issue needs investigating

  • jtburnett's avatar
    jtburnett
    Level 4
    11 years ago

    Thank you Chris,

    Yes, it'll auto re-boot during an incremental only. When it gets back to desktop, there's never a red X in the event viewer, it just shows up iconically as a missed backup. I can then rerun it, and it reports 'sucessful.' It'll do this quite often, but never twice in the same day (say it reboots; you rerun the missed incremental; it'll never do it again that session).

    I used the RP Browser, restored some files from a day that I know it re-booted, they were fine.

     

    As far as why, I can't think of anything else to try. I've tried testing memmory, heat, power supply. All seem good.

     

    Thank you

     

     

  • TRaj's avatar
    TRaj
    Level 6
    11 years ago

    You said it happens for SSR 2013 SP1 only , so do you mean this never happened for base SSR 2013 ? or SSR 2011 ?

    Have you checked the "event logs" after a reboot during an incremental run , is there any other event running or what is the behaviour of the machine Server / Desktop after a reboot ?

  • criley's avatar
    criley
    Moderator
    11 years ago

    First thing I would recommend is to update to SP2 (http://www.symantec.com/docs/TECH214768). A reboot is required.

    If this does not help, you should check the system/application event logs to see what events are shown around the time of the auto-reboot.

  • jtburnett's avatar
    jtburnett
    Level 4
    11 years ago
    No, I meant it to say is that it does it on incrementals only- never when it creates a new base; and that this seems to be the only program, my mistake- they're called 'Apps' now, that causes this reboot problem.
     
    I boot fresh every morning. On 1st boot, it'll do it. After whatever's causing the auto-reboot, It'll never do it. 
     
    It's done it before SR1, and going back all the way to NGST15, even though I'm told this isn't Ghost (maybe a close cousin then?).
     
    Why I never thought to look in the Windows Event Viewer is troubling, I always just looked in the SSR Console's Event Log. :)
     
     
    I'll check it out at the next time it happens to see if I see if there's anything waving a flag at that exact time. Right now, looking through there, nothing sticks-out as being obvious.
     
    Thanks to all!
  • TRaj's avatar
    TRaj
    Level 6
    11 years ago

    hhhmm so you have switched from Ghost to SSR

    You can try Service pack 2 for SSR as the technote shared by Chris and check the event logs and I will be eager to know if there is any flag waving saying hello it is me troubling you and not SSR..:P

    Anyways jokes apart... will await for a response.

  • jtburnett's avatar
    jtburnett
    Level 4
    11 years ago

    I'm to install that from the link that Chris sent me? It's not available yet on Live Update.

    One more thing, I'm not sure if it's important or not, but i'd like to keep it in the thread.

    ​This usually happens when I run a manual incremental. I have my backups scheduled to run at 6:00AM. Normally the computer is on, booted to deskop, and the program starts, finishes, and everything is good.

    But if I log on after 6:00, it's obviously a missed backup. I'm asked. ":do you want to run missed backups now?" It's this senario where it starts the backup and then self-reboots halfway through. When it get's to desktop again, it'll ask the same thing- this time it will run fine.

    Final question (for now). I remember that I had a member of the escallation team's manager (Tech Engineer was U.S.based) walk me through gathering some SSR log to send to the technician. When the Tech got back to me, he said, "you have a lot going on in here." It seemed that the super-dooper, uber-magnificent special root uninstaller for NGST15 had left orphaned files and folders everywhere. He even had to manually remove tons of keys in the Registry. That problem was solved- NGST15 remnants were conflicting with SSR.

    So the question is, can't these logs be looked at by someone? If so, how? It seems whenever I submitt a case, an offshore employee will remotely connect, make sure there are no wonky programs  on the machine, set a Chkdsk/r at next boot, and initiate a Defrag on the C:\ drive. For years this has alway's been their solution. I'm not trying to 'throw them under the bus;, they're eager to help, polite, and nothing but nice, but the 10's upon 10's of hours I've wasted over the years! I ask for a escallation member, but I never get one. I'm assumming Symantec doesn't want to tie up such resources with home users?

    Thanks again

  • criley's avatar
    criley
    Moderator
    11 years ago

    I'm to install that from the link that Chris sent me? It's not available yet on Live Update.

    Yes, that's correct. As the article states, SP2 wont be available on LiveUpdate for around 2 weeks after the release of SP2 (sometime next week I believe). You can however download and install the patch before then.

    Logs can be looked at (you need a support case for this) but really updating to SP2 should be your first port of call to see if it helps.

  • jtburnett's avatar
    jtburnett
    Level 4
    11 years ago
    Yesterday, I ran a scheduled incremental. Everything fine, took 4 
    minuets. Today I missed that scheduled time, and ran a manual 'missed' 
    incremental.
     
    It took aoround 5 minuets to get to 94% complete, with 1 Second left, and 
    didn't 'freeze' per se, but it just stopped, like it was caught in an endless loop (SSR's; Console 'Show Progress' window showed activity ) It'll go from 94% to 81 to 94 to 93 to 94 to 92 etc.
     
    I thought, okay, maybe for some odd reason, it finds a need to do a compare. I let it run for 3 hours- it still is. The only change from yesterday was 2 added bookmarks.
     
    The C;\ drive, where I have the O.S., completed in about 2 minuets. The D;\ drive, which I pretty much use just as archival, is what's now causing SSR to have problems.
     
    In my daily, upon daily, upon weekly, upon weekly, upon monthly, upon mothly, upon yearly, upon yearly problems, I have never, ever, ever, never, never had an incremental take more than mere seconds on the D:/ drive. This just happened after installing R2.
     
    So now what? A Chkdsk/r aint gonna happen; I've done that too many times.
     
    Thank you
  • TRaj's avatar
    TRaj
    Level 6
    11 years ago

    Well I would again ask if you check the behaviour in "Event logs" , do they imply anything.

    Also will suggest a backup schedule to be changed for test purpose from 6am to 7am.

    However the 94% hangs is because the "History" doesn't get updated. Is your incremental stuck at "Upadating History" ? . This could also be because you are missing some recovery points and it still shows up in "Manage backup Destination". Deleting old - recovery points might help or deleting the enteries of the recovery points which are not available on the destination but show up under Manage backup destination

    Use the tools --> edit backup-location and cleanup all non existing backup points.

    Check the below two links , however I will request you to try atlest moving the schedule from 6am to 7am if not even a minute change or half hour difference may help!

    http://www.symantec.com/docs/TECH62474

    http://www.symantec.com/docs/TECH139416

    We have not checked with the OS on which SSR is installed , can you define one please.

    With your questions

    Final question (for now). I remember that I had a member of the escallation team's manager (Tech Engineer was U.S.based) walk me through gathering some SSR log to send to the technician. When the Tech got back to me, he said, "you have a lot going on in here." It seemed that the super-dooper, uber-magnificent special root uninstaller for NGST15 had left orphaned files and folders everywhere. He even had to manually remove tons of keys in the Registry. That problem was solved- NGST15 remnants were conflicting with SSR.

    So the question is, can't these logs be looked at by someone? If so, how? It seems whenever I submitt a case, an offshore employee will remotely connect, make sure there are no wonky programs  on the machine, set a Chkdsk/r at next boot, and initiate a Defrag on the C:\ drive. For years this has alway's been their solution. I'm not trying to 'throw them under the bus;, they're eager to help, polite, and nothing but nice, but the 10's upon 10's of hours I've wasted over the years! I ask for a escallation member, but I never get one. I'm assumming Symantec doesn't want to tie up such resources with home users?

    As Chris has already mentioned this could be looked upon later after a case is logged , and you can anytime ask them to escalate the case , I am sure they will escalate it for you once asked.

    Also Symantec surely wants to tie up resources with home users and no Company wants their businees to be only for Enterprise and needs growth... We only need your co-operation as we can become better only after we make mistakes.