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Backup Exec 12.5 Using Backup to Disk Removable USB Drives

mlynds
Level 2
Hi - I am constantly having issues with this setup.  We create the backup to disk folder - set the backup to disk file sizes to 5 GB (drives formatted as NTFS) with 1 concurrent job and overwrite media.

We are using 5 drives which are rotated Monday through Friday.

The backups will work successfully for 3 or 4 days and then fail with the following error:

Device name : Target name : DAILY BACKUPMedia set name : Keep Data Infinitely - Do Not Allow Overwrite
Error category : Backup Device ErrorsError : e000810c - Physical Volume Library Drive not available.
For additional information regarding this error refer to link V-79-57344-33036

Sometimes the backup to disk folder will go offline - sometimes it won't.

You bring it back online and it works for 3 days then doesn't work again.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

17 REPLIES 17

wired137
Level 3
First off, do you have any errors in the system event log?

This is an older solution for previous versions, but try and give this a check as well http://seer.entsupport.symantec.com/docs/290495.htm

Does everything show up in Device Manager? How big are the USB drives? How many do you have? You can verify that they all show up and work, and are formatted (I know it sounds silly but double check!)?

Let me know what you come up with.

MD

mlynds
Level 2
Hi - there are no erros in the system event log.

We are using 5 Western Digital 500 GB external USB drives for daily rotation - Mon ~ Fri. 

Yes they show up in device manager, they all have the same drive letter and they are all formatted with NTFS.

Ken_Putnam
Level 6


Try pausing the device, swapping the drive, then unpausing the device.  BackupExec should re-initialize it and see the new drive/data

mlynds
Level 2
Hi - is there a way to put this in as a pre / post script command - these are clients of ours and I highly doubt they will follow these instructions each day.  If there is something I can put in before and after the backup runs to ensure the drive comes back online successfully I think all my problems will be solved.

dilberty
Level 3
I'm having similar issues. I think Backup Exec is just not designed for this type of backup strategy (rotating removable disk drives). I've previously used BE with tape and it worked perfectly, ever since switching to removable disk drives the backup is no longer reliable.
I think the "correct" practice in this case would be to backup to a NAS / local storage (always connected) and then offload the backup from there to the removable drives. I've been looking into some QNAP devices which seem to be able to do this at a push of a button (you just connect the usb drive to the NAS and push a button to initiate copying from NAS to the drive). This way you always have the entire week's backup onsite and you don't have to deal with the USB drives switching drive letters or BE going nuts.
Anyhow, I'd be glad to hear how you ended up solving this.

Danny

Ken_Putnam
Level 6
You can create a cmd file of BEMCMD commands and run it from Windows Task Scheduler after the disks are swapped and before the jobs are scheduled to start

dilberty
Level 3
Seems quite odd that I paid a lot of money for what's supposed to be a user friendly backup program with user interface and then ending up writing custom scripts to achieve basic tasks. I think using removable drives with BE may not be the correct approach...

Ken_Putnam
Level 6
Seems quite odd that I paid a lot of money for what's supposed to be a user friendly backup program with user interface and then ending up writing custom scripts to achieve basic tasks.


I agree that after four full versions and a dot release, (v8.6 was the first that supported B2D devices) that BackupExec support for removeable hard drives is still pretty primitive.

I've alway thought that BE should treat B2D devices more like tape drives.  You should be able to mount ANY physical drive to the drive letter that a B2D device is on

When a job starts, "inventory" the device (read the tape header)  if there is no valid B2D folder, post a "mount scratch" type message.  If there is and the job is append, check for a valid media in that media set  

etc
etc
etc


dilberty
Level 3
Removable drives are a headache. Drive letters may change when you swap them. They need to be "Safely Removed".
BE doesn't handle any of this properly. This got me thinking that trying to use removable drives as tape is a bad habit...
I'm currently considering backing up to a NAS and then syncing the NAS to removable drives (there are devices on the market that support this).

sdixon2006
Level 2
I've been trying to get this working right lately and have not had much success either.

I would think that since each drive can be identified uniquely by it's serial number (under any BE supported OS afik), BE would treat removeable drives like tapes (like Ken observed above).  Apparently BE treats removeable storage like normal disk storage and just assumes you have an unreliable or temporary connection to a single target storage folder (drive), and not multiple physical drives (like many of us seem to).

Part of the problem may be BE treating B2D targets like a virtual tape library behind the scenes (literaly), as if each "Drive" is a virtual library with one "drive" and a large number of "slots" and "tapes" of the specified capacity.  This would explain some of the difficulty, as each physical drive (or B2D target) would be treated as a VTL device instead of storage media (hope that makes sense).  I've come to this conclusion after using NetVault to create a VTL on a NAS drive last month for B2D (what a pain BTW).

The only thing I've found so far that seems to 'mostly' work so far is to create a pool of unique B2D drives and adding in some logic to handle 'missing' drives to the BE settings (auto accept media alerts for example).  But this only works for a low number of drives as each drive would consume one drive letter (v,w,x,y,z for example), which makes it of limited utility in the end.  The drive sometimes being unavailable still crops up randomly though (again can be handled somewhat grudgingly with pre-post scripts).

As many of my more frugal and less 'backup aware' clients keep asking for USB backup solutions this makes BE somewhat of a hard sell  (If backing up to tape, it can be pretty easy).

[Idea: Single/Multi drive virtual tape library where each drive is treated as a tape]
What BE needs is to create a logical VTL device on the media server and treat an assigned drive letter (Z: for example) like a single drive slot in the VTL (same as it would treat a physical library with one tape drive). Then just treat each removeable drive (USB/FireWire/eSATA/hot-swappable) just like tapes (prepare, inventory before use, etc).
They could even impose certain restrictions initially to make this work, like reformatting the drive to a specific format, or assigning physical drives to virtual slots (can create an upper limit, but 16 should be plenty for practical purposes, any more and you might as well just use tapes and a library anyway). Done this way you could easily use multiple drives for the same backup job (spanning), etc.  Even better, add a second drive letter as another "tape" slot to the VTL and use multiple drives at once.

BE could even handle media swapping by listening for device arrival/removal events from the OS and check to see if the device is one of the removeable drives ("tapes") in the B2D media pool, then assign it the correct drive letter as needed. (I've done this using WMI and VBS by the way, so I know it can at least be done under Windows)

dilberty
Level 3
Those are some great ideas sdixon.
Btw, I think budget is not the only consideration to choose reomvable drives over tape. For a small business, recovering from "total loss" is much faster with removable drives. Since USB is available on every machine, I can easily do bare metal restores to almost any hardware. If my only off-site backup media is tape on the otherhand, I need a tape drive of a similar model (I usually can't just grab one at a nearby Office Depot). This also makes testing and duplicating the backup easier. Bottom line is I'm not dependent on a single device to access the data.

benjamin7062
Level 2
I'm desperately trying to find a solution to this problem.  Have updates to Backup Exec resolved this?  Can you treat removable hard drives like tapes?  Are there products that could be used in conjunction with Backup Exec that would accomplish this better?  IE, use another product for HD backups to tape and BE for the tape backups (if you still continue to use tapes)?

After 10 years of using Backup Exec for tape backups and archiving I'm disappointed to move to a completely different solution over something quite simple.

Jim_12358
Level 3
I use a batch file to restart the BE services at 9pm each day before the backup job starts to refresh the connected USB drives.

If you don't do this then it sometimes gets confused regards changing the drives over.

I don't target a specific drive for a specific day, so the backup can use wahatever available USB drive is connected.

I use 'All Devices' making sure that only the USB drives are part of the 'All Devices' in the 'Device Pool'

Seems to work OK and have done many restores.

Without the batch file to restrat and refresh the drives each day it falls over pretty quickly.

Also targetting a particular drive for each backup will make it fall over on the first occasion that someone forgest to change the USB drive.

Make sure you exclude the backup drive letter from any AntiVirus scanning software.

Bottom line is tape drives are easier to setup and require far less fiddling about with.

Get a tape drive if budget permits.

Using external USB drives is a challenge !  and not very well documented as far as I can tell.

Randy_W
Level 3
After years of tape library backups, a recent failure in our library controller has us considering using a rotating USB or ESATA backup drive strategy.  It seems to me all they need is an option to specify Overwrite/Append durations on the Removable Media device or possibly even the Backup to Disk folder.   Cheap high capacity SATA drive have been around for a while now.  It's ridiculous Symantec hasn't addressed this issue. 

Paldrion
Level 3
Try the USBDLM program.  You can specify the same drive letter for each USB drive and as long as they are configured the same, it should work for you.

http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/file/fid,68573-order,4-page,7-c,peripherals/description.html

http://www.uwe-sieber.de/usbdlm_e.html

:)

gilbert08
Level 5
Partner Accredited

can bews distinguish the removable drive even if letter was changed?

rstarg
Not applicable
I am using two external drives.  I would like to put my rcover point onto the A drive while it is connected via the local USB port.
Then I want to put the A drive on a remote server - and have it then presented as a network drive to the workstation.

I am hoping I can send my small daily incrimentals to this off site drive.

How can I configure this?

It seems as though when I take the external drive and move it - then the BESR simply starts a brand new recovery point.

Any guidance would be appreciated.

Thanks!