Windows Internal Database backup (SQL)

[RobertPBham]

Hi folks,
 

I'm currently testing our disaster recovery and everything is working well. However, I've just restored a server that hosts among other things WSUS and our antivirus software. Both of these use the Windows Internal Database (SQL mdf files). When I restored the server the Windows Internal Database services wouldn't start and I found this to be because the mdf files were missing. After a quick check, I found that these are excluded due to the Active File Exclusions mechanism that is implemented in Backup Exec.

Now, I know that Backup Exec do a SQL Server agent, but this seems like a rather costly solution as many applications use the Windows Internal Database for storing data and as the Backup Exec SQL agent is licensed per machine, it is by no way cheap to implement. I also believe that Backup Exec uses SQL databases, so I can only assume that my backup of our backup server is technically not a complete backup as well? I can understand the SQL agent being used with SQL Server Enterprise applications, but I don't understand why Backup Exec cannot backup the Windows Internal Database's.
 

So I guess my question is, does everyone use the Backup Exec SQL agent to do this or is there another way? I do know that I could script a backup via the SQL Agent, but this is quite admin intensive and defeats the object of using Backup Exec to backup servers if it 'misses' bits.

Thanks for all your help
Rob

[ZeRoC00L]

What you can do is stop WSUS and the Windows Internal Database. When you do so you will probably be able to backup the databases for WSUS, without the need for an SQL agent.

[RobertPBham]

That wouldn't work though as the Backup Exec Active File Exclusion excludes mdf files - just like it does with edb files for Exchange. I could add registry entries for bypass the Active File Exclusion, but this again is getting admin intensive.

Non of this is difficult, but Backup Exec is 'sold' as THE backup system to use. The problem is, you don't know that your backups aren't 'complete' until you do test DR's like I am, or everything has gone wrong. Backup Exec doesn't alert you it is not backing up the Windows Internal Database which is one of my worries - what else may I be missing??

[RobertPBham]

I just wanted to add to this that I can understand the SQL agent being required when you purchase SQL Server to use in the Enterprise. It's just like purchasing Exchange and then purchasing the Exchange agent. The problem I have with the way Backup Exec is currently working is that the Windows Internal Databases are free to use and used by many many applications - Antivirus, WSUS, Blackberry Enterprise Server, even Backup Exec!!

I do think that Backup Exec should be able to include a cut down version of the SQL agent that is free and included with the product for backing up the free services that come with Windows. I've just looked through my servers and with the various Windows Internal Databases that are running on the servers, I would need to purchase eight SQL agents to back these up correctly.

I'm wondering how Symantec expect you to backup your backup server as if you have to stop the Backup Exec database to do the backup, Backup Exec won't function so you couldn't do the backup anyway......

[CraigV]

Hi robert,

It isn't really centered on BE being THE solution to have. Any vendor worth their reputation is going to make sure that you buy the client agent necessary to back up an application. CA do this with ARCserve, and EMC would do it with NetWorker etc.
There would be no sense on selling a backup application that comes with everything in it, as many people wouldn't need to back up Exchange, or Lotus Notes as a native ability.
So vendors charge you for this functionality.
that said, you can invoke a trial version of your BE. From there, you will be able to back up the SQL instance, and do restores. Once you have tested this, sell the agent functionality to the client, and tell them you can do GRT restores from it making life a lot easier!
Your agent is licensed on a per server basis, not on a per SQL instance. If you have 8 SQL servers, you need 8 SQL agents. if you have 3 SQL servers with 8 SQL instances between them, you need 3 agents!

Cheers!

[Colin_Weaver]

One point that has not been answered

Backup Exec backs up it's own database by scheduling a dump of the database to a .BAK file (at 04:00 daily be default)

As long as the volume with Backup Exec installed is backed up to tape you will be getting a backup of the Backup Exec database. and you won't be using the SQL Agent

Note: You could elect to use SQL itself to create similar BAK fiels for your other databases to do the same thing - as long as you understand the multi-stage restore that is required.

[RobertPBham]

Hi both,

Thanks for your input and comments - I completely agree that Backup Exec should charge for extra functionality - Exchange, SQL, VMware etc and I don't expect that for free.

However, as SQL Express is free to use and a lot of applications use it (as I've listed above) I do believe that these backups should be included when you do a full backup using Backup Exec. Maybe something to consider for a future version?

If certain items (like mdf and edb files) are not to be included in a backup I think that Backup Exec should alert you to the fact and give you options (whether purchasing agents or something else).

I will of course consider scripting my SQL backups to .BAK files and as this backup is for disaster recovery, I expect a little work getting everything up and running again if the worst was to happen. It has opened my eyes though to the fact that my Full System backups aren't actually full backups at all!

Thanks
Rob

[CraigV · Accepted solution]

Hi Robert,

I think they put that alert in the admin guide.
Hope you come right, and if you do, you can close this off as being solved.

Cheers!