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BE 2010 - Dedupe Remote Backup Copy

Clee
Level 3
It sounds like you can replicate a copy of your deduped backups remotely to another BE 2010 media server.

A few questions related to this:
1) Do you need to license the deduplication for both media servers, or would a single deduplication option license cover this?

2) Is this optimized for replication so that only new deduped data gets sent to the remote location? In other words, are just the deduped delta's sent to the remote site, or does it do a full "dump" of the deduped data remotely each time?

3) If I have two sites, can I have them do Deduplicated Remote Backup Copy to each other so that each side can act as the offsite storage for the other, or does there have to be a "parent/child" or "central/remote" relationship set up?

Thanks

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Accepted Solutions

Aidan_Finley
Level 4
Employee

Hello all -

Excellent questions - I will answer Clee's remote dedupe backup copy questions first, then address the 16 TB question second.

1) Do you need to license the deduplication for both media servers, or would a single deduplication option license cover this?

Each BE Media Server that you want to store deduplicated data would need a license for the Deduplication Option.

2) Is this optimized for replication so that only new deduped data gets sent to the remote location? In other words, are just the deduped delta's sent to the remote site, or does it do a full "dump" of the deduped data remotely each time?

It's optimized and only data that does not exist in the remote media server is sent.  Consider a typical Remote Office -> Data Center configuration, with BE Media Servers at both the Remote Office and the Data Center.  Data is backed up locally at the Remote Office and stored in the Remote Office's deduplicated storage folder.  When you choose to set copy that data from Remote Office to Data Center, we actually do a deduplication job betwen the contents of the Remote Office's Deduplcated Storage Folder and the Data Center's Deduplicated Storage Folder, and only copy the deduplicated segments that are necesary.

3) If I have two sites, can I have them do Deduplicated Remote Backup Copy to each other so that each side can act as the offsite storage for the other, or does there have to be a "parent/child" or "central/remote" relationship set up?

There does not need to be a parent-child relationship.  You can refer to each media server that way, but in reality, all Media Servers are peers.  You *will* need to share catalogs between servers, and have each server be aware of each other's existence, which means you will need to use the Central Administration Server Option (CASO) to enable BE Media Servers to store each others' data.  CASO is licensed ONCE per BE environemnt.

Next.... on to the 16 TB question...

There is a limit of 1 Deduplicated Storage Folder per Media Server.  Since “common storage” is key to deduplicating across all backup data on that media server, it makes no sense from a deduplication effectiveness perspective to have multiple deduplicated storage folders per media server.  The more data you have in the deduplicated storage folder to compare against, the better your dedupe ratios will be.

There is also a limit of 16 TB of *deduplicated data* per deduplicated storage folder.  (Dehydrated = Deduplicated). 

From Clee: For example, on site A, what if I have 10TB of logical data that dedupes down to 1 TB. On site B I have another 10TB of logical data that dedupes down to 1 TB. If I remote copy the site A data to site B and site B data to site A, I would have 20 TB (10 from A +10 from B) of logical data stored in each location. However, only 10TB of that data in each location is from a "local" backup. The other comes from a remote site backup copy.  Have I exceeded the 16TB limit or not? (i.e. Would the remote backup copy data count toward the 16TB limit?)

The sum total of all deduplicated data stored in a single deduplication storage folder cannot be more than 16 TB.  This limit is for all deduplicated/dehydrated data on that media server, regardless of how it entered the deduplicated storage folder.  Only deduplicated data and not "logical" or "front-end" data is counted against this 16 TB limitation. 

In the example you give above, Clee, *assuming* the 10-to-1 ratio holds when you transfer A->B and B->A, then the Media Server at Site A would hold 2 TB of deduplicated data, and the media server at Site B would hold 2 TB of deduplicated data.  This is because we are deduplicating the *contents of the deduplicated storage folders* at Site A and Site B against each other. 

I'll look into the FAQ and make sure it's clear that we refer to 16 TB of deduplicated data as the limit.

Let me know if this helps!

Thanks,

Aidan Finley
Sr. Product Manager, Backup Exec
 

View solution in original post

11 REPLIES 11

Ben_L_
Level 6
Employee
1) Do you need to license the deduplication for both media servers, or would a single deduplication option license cover this? - You will need a license for deduplication on both servers

2) Is this optimized for replication so that only new deduped data gets sent to the remote location? In other words, are just the deduped delta's sent to the remote site, or does it do a full "dump" of the deduped data remotely each time? - From the admin guide : "Because the data is deduplicated, only unique data is copied
between the devices." But there is a caviat to this, GRT style backups can not be optimized like this.

3) If I have two sites, can I have them do Deduplicated Remote Backup Copy to each other so that each side can act as the offsite storage for the other, or does there have to be a "parent/child" or "central/remote" relationship set up? You would have to setup duplicate jobs to duplicate the data from one dedup folder to the other media server and target it to the dedup folder.  The servers would have to be setup in a CAS/MMS environment to accomplish this, so it will require a CAS license.

Clee
Level 3
How would the remotely backed up copies affect the 16TB limit of BE 2010?

Thanks

Ben_L_
Level 6
Employee
I'm not sure I'm completely understand your question, can you expand on it for me?

Yan_Thung_Seng
Level 4
Sorry for the interruption, we are interested on the 16TB limi. May I know what is it?  We understand that per media server we are limited to 1 dedupe folder but we didn't know there is limit in capacity as well. Wish to get more information on the limitations.

thanks

Clee
Level 3

I'm trying to understand how the 16TB limit is calculated. (This is from the FAQ, page 5: https://www-secure.symantec.com/connect/sites/default/files/early_adopter_program_faq_1.pdf)

It sounds like this is 16TB of dehydrated/non-deduped data.

However, if you do a remote backup copy, will this dedupe copy data count toward that 16TB limit?

For example, on site A, what if I have 10TB of logical data that dedupes down to 1 TB. On site B I have another 10TB of logical data that dedupes down to 1 TB. If I remote copy the site A data to site B and site B data to site A, I would have 20 TB (10 from A +10 from B) of logical data stored in each location. However, only 10TB of that data in each location is from a "local" backup. The other comes from a remote site backup copy. 

Have I exceeded the 16TB limit or not? (i.e. Would the remote backup copy data count toward the 16TB limit?)

Thanks


 

Ben_L_
Level 6
Employee
I'm checking into the questions on the 16TB limit.   I'm honestly not sure how that's going to work right now.  I am emailing your questions over to our Dev / QA Group, so I hope to have a response later today.

Aidan_Finley
Level 4
Employee

Hello all -

Excellent questions - I will answer Clee's remote dedupe backup copy questions first, then address the 16 TB question second.

1) Do you need to license the deduplication for both media servers, or would a single deduplication option license cover this?

Each BE Media Server that you want to store deduplicated data would need a license for the Deduplication Option.

2) Is this optimized for replication so that only new deduped data gets sent to the remote location? In other words, are just the deduped delta's sent to the remote site, or does it do a full "dump" of the deduped data remotely each time?

It's optimized and only data that does not exist in the remote media server is sent.  Consider a typical Remote Office -> Data Center configuration, with BE Media Servers at both the Remote Office and the Data Center.  Data is backed up locally at the Remote Office and stored in the Remote Office's deduplicated storage folder.  When you choose to set copy that data from Remote Office to Data Center, we actually do a deduplication job betwen the contents of the Remote Office's Deduplcated Storage Folder and the Data Center's Deduplicated Storage Folder, and only copy the deduplicated segments that are necesary.

3) If I have two sites, can I have them do Deduplicated Remote Backup Copy to each other so that each side can act as the offsite storage for the other, or does there have to be a "parent/child" or "central/remote" relationship set up?

There does not need to be a parent-child relationship.  You can refer to each media server that way, but in reality, all Media Servers are peers.  You *will* need to share catalogs between servers, and have each server be aware of each other's existence, which means you will need to use the Central Administration Server Option (CASO) to enable BE Media Servers to store each others' data.  CASO is licensed ONCE per BE environemnt.

Next.... on to the 16 TB question...

There is a limit of 1 Deduplicated Storage Folder per Media Server.  Since “common storage” is key to deduplicating across all backup data on that media server, it makes no sense from a deduplication effectiveness perspective to have multiple deduplicated storage folders per media server.  The more data you have in the deduplicated storage folder to compare against, the better your dedupe ratios will be.

There is also a limit of 16 TB of *deduplicated data* per deduplicated storage folder.  (Dehydrated = Deduplicated). 

From Clee: For example, on site A, what if I have 10TB of logical data that dedupes down to 1 TB. On site B I have another 10TB of logical data that dedupes down to 1 TB. If I remote copy the site A data to site B and site B data to site A, I would have 20 TB (10 from A +10 from B) of logical data stored in each location. However, only 10TB of that data in each location is from a "local" backup. The other comes from a remote site backup copy.  Have I exceeded the 16TB limit or not? (i.e. Would the remote backup copy data count toward the 16TB limit?)

The sum total of all deduplicated data stored in a single deduplication storage folder cannot be more than 16 TB.  This limit is for all deduplicated/dehydrated data on that media server, regardless of how it entered the deduplicated storage folder.  Only deduplicated data and not "logical" or "front-end" data is counted against this 16 TB limitation. 

In the example you give above, Clee, *assuming* the 10-to-1 ratio holds when you transfer A->B and B->A, then the Media Server at Site A would hold 2 TB of deduplicated data, and the media server at Site B would hold 2 TB of deduplicated data.  This is because we are deduplicating the *contents of the deduplicated storage folders* at Site A and Site B against each other. 

I'll look into the FAQ and make sure it's clear that we refer to 16 TB of deduplicated data as the limit.

Let me know if this helps!

Thanks,

Aidan Finley
Sr. Product Manager, Backup Exec
 

Clee
Level 3
Thank you for the information. This was very helpful. Perhaps some of this is available in the various guides/FAQs, but I had a hard time finding it.

This sort of insight into how BE 2010 deduplication works is very helpful for understanding the product better and planning for specific scenarios. I'd like to see more of this available beyond the "how to" focus of the admin guide.

Thanks

Ben_L_
Level 6
Employee
We are working on a FAQ that has this information plus more that we are hoping to have available early in 2010.

Aidan_Finley
Level 4
Employee
Hello -

Yep, we're (and by we I mean me :) ) working on technical white papers and a FAQ  that should have some (all? hopefully!) of the guidance and answers to questions that you need.

When it gets finalized I will post a link to it here.

Thanks,

Aidan Finley
Sr.Product Manager, Backup Exed

Clee
Level 3
Just checking to see if these might be available.

Thanks