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Standard solution for eliminating common file-skip errors?

Ken_Wallewein
Level 4
Partner
Running BE 10.1 with Windows 2003 SBS, in my backups, I get the following
types of messages at a number of sites:

>Backup- C:
>Unable to open the item C:\Program Files\SAV\Savrt\0065NAV~.TMP - skipped.
>Unable to open the item C:\Program Files\SAV\Savrt\0645NAV~.TMP - skipped.
>Unable to open the item C:\WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v1.1.4322
\CONFIG\enterprisesec.config.cch.4344.142204953 - skipped.
>Unable to open the item C:\WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v1.1.4322
\CONFIG\security.config.cch.4344.142204937 - skipped.
>Unable to open the item C:\WINDOWS\system32\dhcp\tmp.edb - skipped.
>Unable to open the item C:\WINDOWS\system32\wins\winstmp.mdb - skipped.

Now, if these were related to uncommon files, I would just deal with them
myself. But they must occur at just about every one of my sites.

Just ignoring them is NOT an appropriate solution. False alarms hide real ones. My clients and I cannot manually inspect the skipped file list after every backup. We need to know the backup was successful.

Surely Symantec/Veritas has a standard, documented, recommend solution that
I can apply for all my clients.

What is it? And why isn't it applied by default, or a standard install-time option?

BTW, as a paid-up support subscriber, I am REALLY unhappy with the response I got when I tried to email this question. The referral to this forum is a major time-waster, a LONG way from a one-click URL or automatic reposting.

/kenw
18 REPLIES 18

priya_khire
Level 6
Hello,

Have you installed the Advanced open file option? If yes, then you can use this option to eliminate the skipped file error message. If not, then you can go to the advanced option tab in backup exec and choose the option to 'never' or 'with lock' for open files when AOFO is not used.Refer to the following technote for more information:

http://support.veritas.com/docs/258696

Note : If we do not receive your reply within two business days, this post would be marked �assumed answered� and would be moved to �answered questions� pool.

Regards.

Ken_Wallewein
Level 4
Partner
You didn't answer my question.

Are you saying that Symantec/Veritas has no list of standard Windows OS-related files that don't need to be backed up? Are you saying that the files on my list DO need to be backed up?

Surely, with millions of sites, you have a pretty good idea what a standard skip list should include. Why should every one of those sites have to develop their own version for the same OS files? Specific apps, sure, but the OS? It makes no sense.

AOFO is not included in SBS, and is too expensive.

Please answer the question I asked.

/kenw

Amruta_Bhide
Level 6
Hello Ken,

No, we do not have such a list.

This is because, the need of each Environment / Firm / and each System Administrator has his/her own need and so excludes / Includes are configured by them as per their own needs.

Exclusions are totally subjective and need to be decided by the System Administrators.

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Thanks.

Ken_Wallewein
Level 4
Partner
Thank you for at least providing a straight answer. The justification, however, was BS.

The examples I gave were either:
a) standard parts of the Windows server environment, in which your software is designed to run, or
b) part of software your own company produces and sells.

Nothing "totally subjective" about that; both apply to millions of your clients. In fact, I can't think of anyone in a better position that yourselves to know whether those files can reasonably be skipped.

Clearly you are either incompetent or quoting company policy set by some PR hack. Don't you feel a little embarassed?

/kenw

Ken_Wallewein
Level 4
Partner
It doesn't make any sense to me that all those administrators need to deal with the skipped files individually, when so many of us must be dealing with the same ones. So I see two potential constructive courses of action, given that the one that seems most logical has been ruled out:

1: If Symantec/Veritas has no list of standard skips, do they have any documentation on dealing with common skipped files? A quick search shows some postings dealing with skips, some legitimate, some not, but nothing collected.

2. How about we users start sharing our "skip lists" right here in this forum, so we can compare and vet them for validity?

/kenw

Jon_Rhoades
Level 4
Most of the files you listed are skipped because that are small databse files that are in use and backupexec can only back them up with open file option. One way to possibly get around this if you are running server 2003 you can turn on the volume shadow copy service that Microsoft provides. Then turn on AOFO in your jobs and select mivrosofts volume shadow service as the snapshot provider. This should then have windows do a snapshot of those databases and back them up from that.

Ken_Wallewein
Level 4
Partner
These files are TEMPORARY files.

As I stated earlier, AOFO is cost-inappropriate for most small businesses, and usually unnecessary. It makes no sense for expect small businesses to pay a who lot extra to backup files that nobody needs anyway.

It almost appears that Veritas doesn't want to resolve these issues so they can sell software the client doesn't really need.

/kenw

Ashutosh_Tamhan
Level 6
You could simply define an exclude rule in the selection list. When you create a backup, you could view the selection list either in the text mode or the graphics mode. So go to the text mode and give in the entries of the types of files which should be excluded from a particular drive or folder..

Or have you tried using a lock to backup these open files. Check the settings under advanced under the backup job properties.

Regards,
Ashutosh

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Ken_Wallewein
Level 4
Partner
Deleted

Ken_Wallewein
Level 4
Partner
Gee, that never occurred to me. I'm sorry, but that's a dumb answer. I've tried to find another way to say it, but it is. It completely misses the point of the entire thread; either you haven't read it, or you didn't have your brain engaged.

I beg the pardon of anyone reading this who thinks I'm being impolite but, frankly, I don't see any alternative. Either Symantec/Veritas has a deliberate, and deliberately unspoken, policy of not dealing with the open file issue, or the people responding to this thread have a serious shortage of clue.

Please escalate this issue to someone who can deal with it intelligently, and ask that person to read the thread carefully before responding.

If Symantec/Veritas has policy of not dealing with open file backup issues that are either:
a) standard parts of the Windows server environment for which BE was designed, or
b) part of software your own company produces and sells,
then please say so. Otherwords, provide specific recommendations on how to deal with them without the use of AOFO.

/kenw

Shane_Silcox
Level 3
Deleted. Never mind - I dont want to get mixed up in this debate.Message was edited by:
Shane Silcox

Ken_Wallewein
Level 4
Partner
Shane, I'd like to hear what you think. If you think I'm wrong, and you've got something constructive to say, I'd be happy to hear it. If you think I'm right, Symantec should hear it. If I posted my email address, would you send it to me directly?

/kenw

Ken_Wallewein
Level 4
Partner
It occurred to me that it might help if I explain why I think this is an important issue.

1. We cannot tolerate routine exceptions or errors. We run BE for many small business client sites. These sites do not have on-site IT staff, and my staff or I may not visit a given site for a month or more at a time. It is important that any anomalies be noticed and dealt with. Therefore, we cannot tolerate routinely having messages that an experienced tech would ignore. Not only because non-technical people don't have the expertise, but because technical people can easily miss important issues when they are buried amid trivialities.

2. Custom exclusion configuration is prone to errors; it needs to be minimized, justified, standardized and documented. In the past, I've set up the sites without exclusions, watched to see what got skipped, and set exclusions accordingly on a site-by-site basis. This is becoming less and less practical, as updates, service packs, etc., change the status quo. It tends to be time-consuming, and it's difficult to bill clients for such baby-sitting. And I have had the experience of being unable to restore important data that was accidentally excluded.

3. The files creating the exceptions are, for the most part, normal parts of the server OS/environment, or software Symantec itself sells. Many of them simply don't need to be backed up, as they are temporary/work files that will be automatically recreated. Some of them are tricky to skip correctly, due to naming conventions. Some of them may require special measures, or special open file settings. Symantec/Veritas is in a much better position than we are to know how to deal with these files.

/kenw

Vincent_Pacific
Level 2
Ken,

I am right there with you on this issue. I too have 12 remote sites and have no IT Staff at these locations either. An honest answer to this by Symantec/Veritas would be appreciated. Going about this by exclusions is not the answer. One site alone had 111 dat file skipped. that is a 111 exclusions. Hopefully someone will answer this for all of us in the same boat.Message was edited by:
Vincent Pacifico

Ken_Wallewein
Level 4
Partner
Vincent, thanks for the support. But I have to ask: were those .dat files part of Windows or Symantec/Veritas software, or were they part of your specific applications? I don't recall that many .dat files being in use on my systems.

If they were part of your own applications, I can't really fault BE. In those cases, you either have to close the applications holding the files open, find a backup-open setting that doesn't conflict with the apps, get AOFO, or create an exclusion for them (which means they wouldn't get backed up -- is that OK?).

Having said that, the documention for text-mode/wildcard exclusions (which you would probably need) is seriously deficient. It's not clear what's supported, what works and what doesn't.

/kenw

Vincent_Pacific
Level 2
Ken,

Here is one of them:
The item C:\Program Files\Exchsrvr\mtadata\db000005.dat in use. These are all comming from exchsrvr folder and only happening on two of my sites with high amount of skipped files. The other sites were all built the same way and are only have a few files comming up this way or not at all.

Ken_Wallewein
Level 4
Partner
That's normal server stuff, all right. I understand Microsoft's NTBACKUP, which comes free with the server, does a significantly better job than BE at that.

Makes you wonder. Should we now start running NTBACKUP before BE, and backing up the backup files? What would Veritas advise?

/kenw

Amruta_Bhide
Level 6
Hello,
We apologise for the late response.

Could you Update us on the Issue?


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Thanks.