FSA Placholder Shortcuts uses same disk space as original File

[mwalker]

Hi all,

My Problem is as the title show, that creating Placeholders looks like
nothing is archived in Windows Explorer.
FSA works fine...i did a test with creating no shortcuts, creating Internet shortcuts
and creating Placholder Shortcuts.
All archived Items are visible and searchable via Web Applications.
But Placeholders uses the same disk space as the original File when i take a look
at the Folder proberties in Windows Explorer.
The fact that the shortcuts look like the original File (same icon and same size)
seems to be correct as the manual says:
"This is a special file that appears exactly as the original file..."
In older Versions i think it was not so...There are no Errors in Event Log...only a Warning-->The checkpoint file could not be saved. Check the permissions of the folder and the file
Report says "Shortcuts are created" and no Errors.
Can anybody agree that no disk space is freed up when creating placeholder?
If so, how can i delete Placeholders after a given Period automaticly through EV?
Envirionment:
EV 8.0.1
File Server-->W2003R2 SP2 (FSA Agent installed...is also DC)

thx in advance
Thomas

[MichelZ]

This is normal behaviour.
Do the files have a little clock icon when you view an archived folder in Windows Explorer?
What happens when you go to the properties of a file? Does it state "Size: xxx kb" and "Size on Disk: xxx kb" ?   is the Size on Disk smaller than the Size? Then it's working perfectly well :)

Cheers

[Darren_Locke]

If the 'size on disk' is showing the same as the 'size' then a placeholder has not been created. The size of disk of a placeholder for an NTFS volume will normally show 4KB. Looking at the properties of the folder you should be able to see the reduction in the size on disk as well. If a placeholder has been created EV will set the 'O' or Offline attribute on the file, so see what attributes are set.

It may be that your vault store properties are set to remove safety copies after backup, in which case your placeholders will not be created until you have backed up the vault store partition. For testing you can either perform a backup and rerun the archive task. Or set the safety copies to remove immediately and rerun the archive task.

Darren

[mwalker]

thx for reply!

No the Icons don't have clock and size on disk is the same as size:


It seems that EV is not able to create Placeholder and leaves the original File.
And as you can see the "remove safety copies" ist set to immediatly, and Shortcuts are created.
This is the Content of the Report;:
 
Archive mode run started at 14.10.2009 09:15:38 for task FS Archiving Task(sitexs-file-vie)

Task run: 1

Time File Size (bytes) Policy name Rule name Rule type Archive status Shortcut type Shortcut status
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
14.10.2009 09:15:43 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3\ARCServe_Lizenz_WWT.pdf 515076 Test03 FSA Folder Policy PDF ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 09:15:43 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3\DMA.xls 23040 Test03 FSA Folder Policy Office Files ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 09:15:43 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3\Grötz_HP_ASE_BladeSystems 2007].pdf 58427 Test03 FSA Folder Policy PDF ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 09:15:44 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3\Grötz_STS_BE12.pdf 265112 Test03 FSA Folder Policy PDF ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 09:15:44 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3\Grötz_STS_EV8.pdf 264998 Test03 FSA Folder Policy PDF ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 09:15:44 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3\IE_font.doc 23552 Test03 FSA Folder Policy Office Files ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 09:15:44 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3\Jahreszielgespräch SiteXs (3).docx 105616 Test03 FSA Folder Policy Office Files ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 09:15:44 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3\mapei.VSD 187392 Test03 FSA Folder Policy Office Files ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 09:15:45 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3\MCSA(rgb).gif 3171 Test03 FSA Folder Policy Images ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 09:15:45 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3\MCTS(rgb)_530.gif 4110 Test03 FSA Folder Policy Images ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 09:15:46 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3\Mitarbeiterbogen.doc 51200 Test03 FSA Folder Policy Office Files ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 09:15:46 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3\MS_Learning_Transcript.pdf 153136 Test03 FSA Folder Policy PDF ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 09:15:46 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3\scsi_jumper_settings.xls 16896 Test03 FSA Folder Policy Office Files ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 09:15:46 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3\sitexs logo Vorlage-350dpi.JPG 184855 Test03 FSA Folder Policy Images ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 09:15:46 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\data\docu\VMwareESX\VMwareESX.pdf 711505 docu FSA Folder Policy docu ARCHIVE Archived CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 09:15:46 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3\sitexs.bmp 921654 Test03 FSA Folder Policy Images ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 09:15:47 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3\vinyl.bmp 308190 Test03 FSA Folder Policy Images ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 09:17:49 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\data\docu\HP Enterprise HW\CSG20981SG10412.pdf 14242815 docu FSA Folder Policy docu ARCHIVE Archived CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 09:21:16 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\data\docu\HP Enterprise HW\CSG20981SG20412.pdf 8162557 docu FSA Folder Policy docu ARCHIVE Archived CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 09:23:05 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\data\docu\HP Enterprise HW\CSG20981SG30412.pdf 6667440 docu FSA Folder Policy docu ARCHIVE Archived CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 09:26:10 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\data\docu\HP Enterprise HW\CSG20981SG40412.pdf 12041124 docu FSA Folder Policy docu ARCHIVE Archived CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated

Summary by volume

\\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$

 Estimated space saved after shortcut creation and file deletion (MB): 42,75

 Policy name Rule name Rule type Items matched Size of items matched (MB)
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 docu FSA Folder Policy docu ARCHIVE 5 39,89
 Test03 FSA Folder Policy PDF ARCHIVE 5 1,20
 Test03 FSA Folder Policy Office Files ARCHIVE 6 0,39
 Test03 FSA Folder Policy Images ARCHIVE 5 1,36

 Archive Point Summary
 ---------------------
  ArchivePointPath VaultStoreName RemoveSafetyCopies
  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3 File Vault Store Immediately
  \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test1 File Vault Store Immediately
  \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\data\docu File Vault Store Immediately
  \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test2 File Vault Store Immediately

 Retention Folders Summary
 --------------------------

  No folders created.

Total volumes processed:     1
Total folders processed:     6

Total number of files matching an archive rule:              21
Total number of files matching an archive and copy rule:      0
Total number of files matching a do not archive rule:         0
Total number of files matching a delete rule:                 0

Total files that matched a rule and were processed successfully:     21 (42,83 MB)
Total files archived:                                                 5 (39,89 MB)
Total files excluded by a do not archive rule:                        0 (0,00 MB)

Shortcut Creation
Total number of files matching a 'Create Shortcuts Immediately' rule:      21
Total number of files matching a 'Create Shortcuts Later' rule:             0
Total number of files matching a 'None. Archive and Delete File' rule:      0

Total errors reported: 0

Processing of all volumes is complete.

Start time: 14.10.2009 09:15:38
End time:   14.10.2009 09:32:40
Elapsed Time: 00:17:01
 

[MichelZ]

You seem to be using this Share with Offline Files, correct? (i.e. cached on your computer)

What happens when you go directly to the fileshare:
\\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\data\docu

Does it show clocks, there?

Cheers

[mwalker]

No, direct on the Server are also no clocks showed and no difference between size and size on disk.
I'm not using offline Files....these directories are created for testing an filled with files.
In the Report are listed Files which i archived yesterday with creating Placeholders,
and they were processed again with "archived status=archivedbackup"-->what does this mean?
I will make another test on an different share and post the result.

thx
thomas

[TonySterling]

The first time the FSA task processes the file share it will archive the items, if the safetycopy strategy is after back it waits for the back up to happen before making the item a placeholder during the archive run.  If it is immediate as in your case it is made a placeholder on the next archive run.  Have you ran the archive task again?

[TonySterling]

You can actually do a run now for the FSA Task to just create the placeholders.

Run the task for the creation of shortcuts only. Select this option to restrict the task so that it does not archive, but does create shortcuts. The task creates shortcuts according to the shortcut creation settings in the policy archiving rules. When you select this option the task does not perform archiving. You can choose In report mode to generate a report of shortcuts that would be created if the task ran in normal mode.

[MichelZ]

@Tony

That's what I tought, too, but EV says it did create the placeholders:

14.10.2009 09:23:05 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\data\docu\HP Enterprise HW\CSG20981SG30412.pdf 6667440 docu FSA Folder Policy docu ARCHIVE Archived CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated

[TonySterling]

I am pretty sure that is for his internet shortcut test.  When placeholders are created it will say PlaceholderCreated or MadePlaceHolder or something like that.  At least that is what I remember.  :)

[mwalker]

Firstable thx for your support!
I did a run now creating shortcuts only and nothing changed.
Same Icons and same disk usage.
I did, as noted above, also tests with Internet Shortcuts and without Shortcuts which
results as expected-->Files were deleted and Shostcuts were created.
As I said I will do another Test on a different Server tomorrow....

This is the Report of the "shortcut creation only run":

Archive mode run started at 14.10.2009 16:17:41 for task FS Archiving Task(sitexs-file-vie)

Task run: 1

Time File Size (bytes) Policy name Rule name Rule type Archive status Shortcut type Shortcut status
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
14.10.2009 16:17:45 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3\ARCServe_Lizenz_WWT.pdf 515076 Test03 FSA Folder Policy PDF ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 16:17:45 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\data\docu\VMwareESX\VMwareESX.pdf 711505 docu FSA Folder Policy docu ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 16:17:46 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\data\docu\HP Enterprise HW\CSG20981SG10412.pdf 14242815 docu FSA Folder Policy docu ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 16:17:46 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3\DMA.xls 23040 Test03 FSA Folder Policy Office Files ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 16:17:46 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\data\docu\HP Enterprise HW\CSG20981SG20412.pdf 8162557 docu FSA Folder Policy docu ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 16:17:46 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3\Grötz_HP_ASE_BladeSystems 2007].pdf 58427 Test03 FSA Folder Policy PDF ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 16:17:46 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\data\docu\HP Enterprise HW\CSG20981SG30412.pdf 6667440 docu FSA Folder Policy docu ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 16:17:46 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3\Grötz_STS_BE12.pdf 265112 Test03 FSA Folder Policy PDF ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 16:17:46 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\data\docu\HP Enterprise HW\CSG20981SG40412.pdf 12041124 docu FSA Folder Policy docu ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 16:17:46 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3\Grötz_STS_EV8.pdf 264998 Test03 FSA Folder Policy PDF ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 16:17:49 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3\IE_font.doc 23552 Test03 FSA Folder Policy Office Files ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 16:17:50 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3\Jahreszielgespräch SiteXs (3).docx 105616 Test03 FSA Folder Policy Office Files ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 16:17:50 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3\mapei.VSD 187392 Test03 FSA Folder Policy Office Files ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 16:17:51 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3\MCSA(rgb).gif 3171 Test03 FSA Folder Policy Images ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 16:17:51 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3\MCTS(rgb)_530.gif 4110 Test03 FSA Folder Policy Images ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 16:17:51 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3\Mitarbeiterbogen.doc 51200 Test03 FSA Folder Policy Office Files ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 16:17:51 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3\MS_Learning_Transcript.pdf 153136 Test03 FSA Folder Policy PDF ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 16:17:51 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3\scsi_jumper_settings.xls 16896 Test03 FSA Folder Policy Office Files ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 16:17:51 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3\sitexs logo Vorlage-350dpi.JPG 184855 Test03 FSA Folder Policy Images ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 16:17:52 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3\sitexs.bmp 921654 Test03 FSA Folder Policy Images ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated
14.10.2009 16:17:52 \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3\vinyl.bmp 308190 Test03 FSA Folder Policy Images ARCHIVE ArchivedBackedUp CREATESHORTCUTSIMMEDIATELY ShortcutCreated

Summary by volume

\\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$

 Estimated space saved after shortcut creation and file deletion (MB): 42,75

 Policy name Rule name Rule type Items matched Size of items matched (MB)
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 docu FSA Folder Policy docu ARCHIVE 5 39,89
 Test03 FSA Folder Policy PDF ARCHIVE 5 1,20
 Test03 FSA Folder Policy Office Files ARCHIVE 6 0,39
 Test03 FSA Folder Policy Images ARCHIVE 5 1,36

 Archive Point Summary
 ---------------------
  ArchivePointPath VaultStoreName RemoveSafetyCopies
  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test3 File Vault Store Immediately
  \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test1 File Vault Store Immediately
  \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\data\docu File Vault Store Immediately
  \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\Groetz\Test2 File Vault Store Immediately

 Retention Folders Summary
 --------------------------

  No folders created.

Total volumes processed:     1
Total folders processed:     6

Total number of files matching an archive rule:              21
Total number of files matching an archive and copy rule:      0
Total number of files matching a do not archive rule:         0
Total number of files matching a delete rule:                 0

Total files that matched a rule and were processed successfully:     21 (42,83 MB)
Total files archived:                                                 0 (0,00 MB)
Total files excluded by a do not archive rule:                        0 (0,00 MB)

Shortcut Creation
Total number of files matching a 'Create Shortcuts Immediately' rule:      21
Total number of files matching a 'Create Shortcuts Later' rule:             0
Total number of files matching a 'None. Archive and Delete File' rule:      0

Total errors reported: 0

Processing of all volumes is complete.

Start time: 14.10.2009 16:17:41
End time:   14.10.2009 16:32:41
Elapsed Time: 00:15:00

[mwalker]

Addtional Info:
Volume and Folder Policies used in these Reports are set to Placeholder,
so i think it should  not be possible for EV to create Internet Shortcuts instead of Placeholders.
And there are no Internet Shortcuts created for these runs.
Maybe someone can confirm that a Report says somthing like "Placeholder created" when
Placeholders are set in the Policy.

Good Evening,
thomas

[mwalker]

So now i did a test on a different Server...and it worked perfect.
Expected Icons and Diskspace Reduction.
The Report says "shortcuts created".
But maybe i have misunderstood an other fact which i forgot to tell:
DFS-->in combatibility charts is DFS Namespace listed as supported
to access Placeholder but not to archive from.
So I thouhgt that  a Target can not be a Namespace but a Fileserver (hostname),
because how can I get placeholder on a Namespace-->copy or move them there?
Why should i do that?
Is it possible to archive Files from such Server creating Placholder Shortcuts.
Archving Files without creating Shortcuts and creating Internet Shortcuts worked
perfect on the same Server...also were all Files archived from the "Placeholder Policy" as i can see in Archiv Explorer.

Can somebody say something about that?
 
greetings,
thomas

[MichelZ]

Thomas

Is \\Sitexs-file-vie.SiteXs.local\User$\ a DFS Share?
If yes, remove the Share, and point directly to the hosting fileserver.

This should work.

References:
http://seer.entsupport.symantec.com/docs/282891.htm
http://seer.entsupport.symantec.com/docs/308855.htm

Keep in mind the limitations in the first link.

Regards
Michel

[mwalker · Accepted solution]

It is not a DFS Share.
But there are other DFS shares on the same disk.

I did another test on the same disk.
This works as expected-->icons with clock and 4 KB size.
But only on the Server and from a XP Client.
My Vista Client (where i did all the test) shows a hourglass changing th a X  over the icon,
and when I open the properties of the file it is recalled.
On the XP Client this do not occur.

...this is a client problem and i didn't realize it :(
Sorry!

I found only these docs:
http://seer.entsupport.symantec.com/docs/325631.htm 
this one has nothing to do with my problem i think

http://seer.entsupport.symantec.com/docs/300992.htm
The Files are not cached and I'm not offline...am  I wrong?

Vista Clients are supported I thought !?

regards
thomas

[Darren_Locke]

Yes, vista clients are supported. What operation are you doing that is triggering the recall on Vista? Do you have something like the Vista preview pane turned on? If so that will cause a recall. Pass-through recall in v8 sp1+ should help with that.

Darren