Full Backup to Incremental Backup

[TelecommAnalyst]

Hi, Quick question (I am new to backupExec)

I need to perform a fresh new backup. No backups were ever run since the software was installed. I would like to perform incremental backups. Do I set a full backup one night and then incremental the next night? Or do I just schedule an Incremental from the start? Will an incremental backup job perform a full backup first? I would like to keep it automated.

[Ken_Putnam]

AFAIK, you must run at least one Full before either an INCR or a DIFF will work.

Even if you plan to do mainly INCR backups, you should do periodic FULLs, since in case of a Distaster Recovery Scenario,  you need the last full and all subsequent INCR, in order, to get back to where you were.

[infrastructure1]

Ok to directly answer your question, Yes, an Incremental backup will work without a "Full" being run first, HOWEVER, standard procedure is to run a "Full" before any "Incremental" or "Differential" backups. Then you also want to schedule regular (weekly/Monthly) Full backups of the selection list. This allows you to do a complete restore without having to maintain all of your Incremental backups forever. (Read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backup#Data_repository_models)

You really want to understand the basics of backups before trying to implement a backup strategy. It can be catastrophic to your company and your career to THINK you are safely backed up, then find out you aren't.

If you'd like more help, reply and i can give you plenty of links. (It's a topic I'm highly interested in currently).

[TelecommAnalyst]

Thanks for the reply. Currently, I set it up to perform a full backup Friday night and incremental until the next Friday where I will do another Full backup again a week later, thus weekly full backups with incremental in between.

The reason for this is I am using an LTO tape 800 GB compressed 400GB native for very large call recording files from our customer service department. The backup cannot start until after 12:00 weekdays due to Database requirments, so  I set up a full backup Friday night into Saturday. Noone is there on Saturdays.

Since this is the first backup, I have to do a full backup of all the data on the drive. Currently over 200GB. They need call records for up to a year and then they can be deleted.  I set the overwrite protection for 1 year.

[infrastructure1]

are all the calls in a single file, or multiple files?

Remember, the way incremental backups work is by checking if the "Archive Bit" is set. you can see the Archive attribute in windows by changing your view to Detailed. If it is a single file and changes are made daily, then there is a single Archive bit and therefore every day it would get backed up in it's entirety.

this may be adding complexity (and therefore not helping) but I just want to make sure you know what troubles may lie ahead.

Good luck.

[TelecommAnalyst]

Thanks for the help. Each call is recorded and it creates its own file (like a windows media player file for example) which is dumped into a folder. The folder could contain multiple call records each with different call lengths and customer information.

A single folder could have new calls dumped in it daily. For example, folder "56" could have 10 calls recorded one day and 20 the next day.

The call recording files do not get changed, but the folders they are in do (recordings are added to the folders).

How will this effect the backup? Will the incremental work correct for new information in folders or just changed files?

[TelecommAnalyst]

Also, on the folders that would be backed up in the "advanced properties" of the folder there is no check in the box that states "folder is ready for archiving". Is this the archive bit info?

[infrastructure1]

In the case you mention, the folder itself would not be marked for backup, since only part of it's contents were changed. the same attribute you mentioned is available on files themselves and this is used to designate files that have been changed since the last backup.

The folder tree for files is stored when you backup using the "Preserver Folder Tree" option. This allows for the exact folder structure to be redeployed should a restore be needed.

[TelecommAnalyst]

ok, very important question.

When a new file gets created in a folder, will that file be backed up in an incremental since technically the folder was changed since the last backup?  Does the incremental backup recognize updated folders or just files?

In a nut shell, I need to make sure that my incrementals are backing up newly created files in previously backed up folders.

Also, Is the "Preserver Folder Tree" feature in the backupExec software? How can I view this?

[infrastructure1]

For more info on the archive bit check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archive_bit

The "Preserve Tree" setting is in the job properties page under Settings>General. I was mistaken about this version of BE though, 11d automatically utilizes and maintains the tree structure. My previous backup solutions didn't.

[TelecommAnalyst]

Hi, long time no talk.  I have another quick questions in regards to incremental backups that is not specific to Wikipedia.

Can you perform  incremental backups to the same tape every night with an append. For example,  I can do a full backup one night say Monday, then have incrementals Tuesday - Sunday on one tape. The tape would stay in the drive and go offsite at the end of the week. (I know it is better to ship offsite every day, but this circumbstance is different)

How will this effect a restore since I know I have to restore the full backup then the incrementals in order. Does the software know what incremental was first since each day/incremental is appending to one tape?

Note: If each incremental was on a different tape, it would be easier since you just take each tape from the specific day it was backed up.

But how would a restore happen off one tape with multiple appended incrementals? If this can be done at all.

[Ken_Putnam]

Can you perform  incremental backups to the same tape every night with an append

Certainly

Does the software know what incremental was first since each day/incremental is appending to one tape?

yes it does

But how would a restore happen off one tape with multiple appended incrementals

Submit one restore for each incremental.  Backup Exec should call for the same tape each time

[TelecommAnalyst]

Very cool. Thank you for the quick reply.

[RoninV]

This thread really came in handy!!!

I just picked up a new client who uses Veritas (BackupExec) 9.x (yes, I am trying to get them to upgrade). Anyway, they have been doing full backups each weekday, which is now 168GB in size, so you can imagine how long this daily process takes. Looks like the decision comes down to differential vs. incremental.

Though a differential backup appears to be the way to go, since it only requires the last full backup + last differential backup for data restoration, BackupExec 9.x doesn't offer the 'reset archive bit' option for a differential backup. Looks like I'll be moving them to full+incremental backups (Friday: full backup, M-Th: incremental).

Question: Do subsequent version of BackupExec (10.0 and higher) offer differential backups with the 'reset archive bit' option?

RoninV

[TelecommAnalyst]

Yes, with 11d, I do full backups with differentials (resetting the archive bit) in between. With 11d you have that capability.

[Ken_Putnam]

Differential by definition DOES NOT reset the Archive Bit

Incremental by definition DOES reset the bit

That is the difference between the two

(If you reset the bit, then you cannot use only the last full and last subsequent )

Message Edited by Ken Putnam on 08-29-2007 02:12 PM

[TelecommAnalyst]

oops, your right. Sorry, I'm just doing differentials in between the full backup. I'll have to look at 11d and see if it lets you do a differential with resetting the archive bit. Differential willl just keep backing up the same stuff since the last full backup, thus growing each backup bigger and bigger. But in my case, that is ok.

[Ken_Putnam]

In every version since v6.1, you just select INCREMENTAL to do what you are describing.  (Backup files changed since the last backup and reset the bit)

But as you mentioned in your first post - Incrementals require the last full and ALL subsequent Incrementals, IN ORDER , to get back to where you were.

[RoninV]

Differential....duh! What was I thinking? Anyway...

Thanks for the insight. Right now, this client's backup takes 12+ hours (with verification). Their backup basically consists of MS Exchange mailboxes/public folders, as well as some additional shares on their main server. Since changing their backup scheme will lessen that time constraint considerably, I'm hoping to avoid having them purchase new hardware (current: hp Ultrium 215 LTO1). If all goes well, only the full backup (on Fridays) will require a lot of time.

...and a new file IS considered a CHANGE, warranting its inclusion in an incremental backup?

[Ken_Putnam]

...and a new file IS considered a CHANGE, warranting its inclusion in an incremental backup?

Yes

You can test this yourself.  Look at a directory after it has been backed up.  Select one of the files, check the properties, the "ready for Archiving" box should be unchecked

Now, in the same directory, create a new text file and save it  Check the properties for that.  The box should be checked