physical master server vs virtual master server

[rookie11]

Hello Experts,

My client wants to convert physical master server(NBU  7.5.6 win 2003, good configuration in terms of RAM, cache memory etc) into a virtual machine win 2012(NBU 7.6 ,VMware based master server). we got 45 TB of front end data. 2 tape libraries and 6 NBU appliances. it is not a small data center.

I really dont know whether this decision to convert physical master server to virtual master server will do any good. I need ur views on physical master server vs virtual master server.

Please share your experience, knowledge on this topic.

I would like to know pros n cons of physical master server vs virtual master server

[D_Flood]

You didn't list what version your Master is but you're probably going to have to two-step the OS upgrade and (at least for awhile) run on a Win 2008 x64 system since its the only one that supports both 7.5.0.x and 7.6.  And its a very good idea to be running 7.6 before you move to Win2k12 Masters or Media Servers.  The SORT is a good place to start working on a upgrade/migration checklist:

https://sort.symantec.com/netbackup

As for Virtual vs Physical, if your Master has any direct connectivity to the tape libraries, you'll have to have a Physical Master.  Here's a good starting point for figuring all that out:

http://www.symantec.com/business/support/index?page=content&id=TECH127089

Also, there can be very valid recovery and DR reasons to have everything physical and separate from the in-house virtual environment.  If you have a virtual Master and the environment collapses then you may have to rebuild that Master and recover the catalog before you can recover anything else...

[rookie11]

initial post updated

[NBU35]

Also does netbackup support tapr drive & tape library as a pass through device from ESX host to virtual media server ?

[rookie11]

If master server is moved as virtual then it will only be MASTER+EMM, no media server. As a physical server it is master+emm+media server. keeping it as media server give us flexibilty to control tape drives.

[Marianne]

I am late to this discussion...

A virtual server cannot be a media server using tape. Only disk storage is supported on a VM.

So, if you decide to move your master to a VM, you will have to add a physical server as media server for robot and tapes.

See: 
Statement of Support for NetBackup 7.x in a Virtual Environment:    http://www.symantec.com/docs/TECH127089 

To migrate to new server, you need to perform catalog backup and restore using same hostname, NBU version and patch level, same installation path.

W2003 is no longer supported as master on 7.6.x and W2012 is only supported as from 7.6.0.1.
So, you will have to stand up a W2008 server as additional migration step, upgrade to 7.6.0.1, then migrate to W2012.

See: 

Using catalog backup and recovery to transfer NetBackup catalogs between Windows master servers as part of a hardware refresh
http://www.symantec.com/docs/TECH77447 

For server specs, see: 
Updated NetBackup Backup Planning and Performance Tuning Guide for Release 7.5 and Release 7.6

More documentation:

NetBackup 7.x Upgrade Portal
http://www.symantec.com/docs/TECH74584
Pay careful attention to all URLs in above link. Including SORT and Upgrade Guides.

Hope this helps!

[rookie11]

this is my original question : 

I would like to know pros n cons of physical master server vs virtual master server. just want to know experts comments. I am sure NBU admin can put some points on this discussion.

[watsons]

I think the pros is pretty obvious, whatever you can think of about the advantages of virtualization would be its pro. 

Cons are more of a concern, such as the performance of a virtual master server is subject to how powerful the ESXi host is, and possible VMware or NBU bugs can impact its performance - again this is the risk you gotta take when you're on virtual env. 

I haven't had a chance to convert a physical master server to virtual, but were i in your position, I would ask for a test env. that I can do some tests for the virtual master server. If necessary, having the virtual master server hosted on a less-loaded ESXi host.

[rookie11]

@watsons : BIG THANKS

even though i tried various ways to find on google regarding same topic , result is a dud. No NBU expert is putting or designing backup infrastructure as master server on VM. Hence like you pointed out vmware n nbu bugs can impact , but nobody is aware of such a thing. Big creepy issue is someone from symantec sales team suggested to make master as vm to reduce cost and corporate guys took it as bottom line.

-- if complete vm environment goes down then for whole nbu is on mercy of vmware environment. cannot even restore other vm machines. it should be other way around.

--- no document available from symnatec. only support guide which says they suport virtual server running as master.

[V4]

rookie 

i do encourage my customers to move from physical and leverage virtualization

sales mentioned it correctly to optimize and reuse physical server only for media server rather master and or opscenter together if so.

Indeed if ESX or hyper-v goes down NBU is gone. Perhaps in design we do factor physical hypervisor has sufficient resources to handle load of NBU as master server

has local HA (hypervisor level HA) so live migration or vmotion takes place as and when physical server undergoes scheduled/unscheduled maintenance and/or crashes ;)

Cluster VM Master server  in Clustered hyper-visor is better choice to go for. + Leverage AIR to replicate catalogs 

tape out of catalog is must 

So far i could think all above rest pls add your views.

not only NBU but for any application moving towards virtualization is to give a thought on "what if hypervisor went down", surely HA and vmotion are in place ;)

[RonCaplinger]

Along these same lines, hypothetically, what would anyone here think of a cloud-based master server? Such as a D.R. master with physical media servers at the D.R. location supporting AIR?

Assuming all media servers are physical hardware at both primary and backup location, and assuming the cloud server was sized correctly, does anyone see any potential issues with this setup?

I brought this up with our Symantec reps once, they didn't see any licensing issues, just the usual support caveats for a virtualized server.

[rookie11]

@ captain jack I completly agree with this point.

Cluster VM Master server  in Clustered hyper-visor is better choice to go for. + Leverage AIR to replicate catalogs. (but we doing catalog backups on NBU appliances only , no tape copy of catalog).

i think BIG question is what should be amount of front end data to move physical master to virtual master.

2nd Q: once we start running it there would be OS related issue n NBU related minor glitches n bugs which creep up time to time. they get solved in maintainence packs but there is almost zero documents which says master server on vmware.

===================================

u mentioned tape out is a must. please elaborate

[Ron_Cohn]

We have virtualized our NBU Master and 4 out of 5 Media servers (5th puts Copy 3 to tape). Depending on your environment, you may not have to use clustering. In our case, we use EMC Recoverpoint to replicate our VM's to our DR site - this includes our NBU environment. This makes life extremely simple...

[V4]

front end data????

Its all your NBU DB, images EMM KMS (if so) logs etc)... rest are OS and other drives etc... That's general thing which migrates... All  you have to do is install fresh VM with same OS and patches .. 

size of data would depend how large is your EMM.. and that's all you have to restore... unless you trust P2V conversion. (i prefer catalog recovery)

Move media ownership of master server to another media server

have KMS backed up

have catalog backed up

shutdown original master server and reset its AD computer account (so it doesn't cause issues when VM is up with same hostname and IP

install NBU on VM master server with same version and patches if so

restore catalog

ensure vm and physical media server have network access to each other (generally vm NETWORK is more secure from physical layers... get it routed from vm and network admins.

verify media server, clients and master / opscenter connecitivity to each other

perform test backups from  new data and restores from previous and new backup sets..

catalog on disk for short retention and quick recovery  and on tape for archival purpose. Master server is for policy and management its all media server which owns taks to perform backup to disk or tape associated to it.

complete tape solution isn't viable considering disaster or Disk failure issues.. Tape least ensures we have another copy which can be recovered (either by importing unless AIR is used with catalog replication) 

hope this answers your doubts