Duplicate backups - Best Practice

[Pete_Jones]

I have a DLT tape drive which I run a Father-Son backup schedule. I also have a large USB drive which I would like to duplicate my backups onto. At the moment, I have setup the schedule so that I backup only onto tape but now wish to duplicate my backup onto the USB drive. I've tried setting up a duplicate job for both my daily incremental and full weekly backup but I get the following error. Would this be because I should be backing up to the USB drive first and then duplicate to tape?

Job name : Room 58 Work in Progress and Websites-Room58 WIP Policy-Duplicate Backup Sets Template 0003
Job type : Duplicate
Job status : Failed
Job log : Server name : ROOM58PDC
Selection list name : Duplicate Backup Sets 00002
Device name :
Target name : Full Weekly Backup
Media set name : Media Set 1
Error category : Job Errors
Error : e00081d2 - The script associated with this job contained no valid selections.

[Melissa_Winans]

The generally accepted procedure is to do the original backup to disk, followed by duplicating the backup sets to tape, on the principle that backups to disk will typically have a higher transfer rate, and are going to a less failure prone destination. However, I would not expect doing your duplication the other way around to produce the particular error that you are seeing.

The message about the script containing no valid selections typically indicates that the backup job which the duplicate job is supposed to copy failed to produce any output. For example, if a backup job fails because the target computer is off line, the following duplicate job would fail with precisely this message.

Things to check include the following:

--- Did one of your backup jobs fail because it couldn't connect to the target computer?

--- Is the Duplicate job starting too soon, before the associated backup job has finished?

--- Are the jobs set to start in the right order - backup first, then duplicate?

--- When you set up your policy, did you remember to create a rule associating the duplicate template with the backup template(s)?

--- Is the duplicate job failing on the first attempt, and having to be rerun? If so, it will fail because the script is thrown away after the first attempt. If this happens, you must create a new duplicate job, not linked to a policy, to copy whatever backup sets got missed.

If none of this is any help, please describe your procedure in a bit more detail and I'll try again.

[Todd_Henry]

Pete, I am having the same issue.

First, I would like to say that Melissa is right and that you should backup to disk first (Father) and then write to tape/USB Drive (Son). Depending on your situation I would append a rule that says, "If successfully completes, start .

The issue is when you create a Duplicate Backup Set within the Policy. BackupExec for whatever reason is randomly assigning a "Selection List" to the job. When the job runs, it looks for the job template you used as the source and looks at its selection list for what media/data to backup. In my case it is looking for selection list "Duplicate Backup Sets 00001". This selection list does not exist so the job fails because it doesn't know what you wanted backed-up. The selection list it "should" be looking for is "Syteline Database" or whatever you called your source selection list.

To verify this, do the following:
1. Under "Job Setup" double click one of your duplicate jobs. It will be listed as "Duplicate" under Job Type.
2. Click "OK" to acknowledge "You cannot edit a job that was created by a policy."
3. Click "Yes" to "Do you want to edit the job"
4. Under "Source" on the left pane click "Selections"

Now on the right had side under "Selection list" you "should" see your selection list that you want to backup. If it doesn't, then this is your problem. I have a list ranging from "Duplicate Backup Sets 00001 to 000015". None of which are my in my selection list. To further troubleshoot the issue, I even staggered the jobs. The Father started at 5:30AM and the Son started at 6:00AM with the same result.

What you are experience is a nasty bug that I cannot find a fix for. I did however find this forum post http://tinyurl.com/ydhtzz that is very similar to our issue, however did not work for me. My next step/solution would be to install 10.x SP2.

Please let me know if anyone has found a resolve for this issue.

[Melissa_Winans]

In point of fact, these "Duplicate Backup Set nnnn" selection lists actually do exist, and there's nothing random about their creation. One such selection list is created at the time that any backup selection list is first associated with a policy which includes a Duplicate template, and it remains permanently associated with that job. The selections it contains are updated every time that the backup job is run to include whatever backup sets the job creates, and updated a second time to remove them once the Duplicate job has run. The catch is that a number of factors (including failed jobs, as I mentioned earlier) can cause selections to be removed from the list prematurely.

Just as Todd says, it is possible to change the selections by double clicking on the job in Job Setup. However, the fact that doing so breaks the association between the job and its underlying template can cause future problems. Instead, I would advise using the "Edit > Edit Selection Lists" command to edit the selection list directly. The duplicate job can then be rerun to take care of the missed copies.

If (like me) you have an aversion to selection lists with names which do not clearly identify their reason for being, it is even possible to use "Edit > Edit Selection Lists" to change the name to something more meaningful.

[Pete_Jones]

Thanks guys. This has been really useful (and i'll update the thread accordingly). I'll rework my backup policy so that I backup to the USB drive and then duplicate to tape. I think it was failing as I was probably running the duplication at the same time as the backup.

[Todd_Henry]

Pete I wasn't suggesting that you "change the selections by double clicking on the job in Job Setup. I only suggested this method so he could verify that the job had the correct selection list associated to it. Which in my case I found the duplicate job had an associated selection list of "Duplicate Backup Sets 00001" and not the selection list name I had assigned to the original job called "Syteline Database". However, if I understand her correctly, Melissa, states this is by design. I was assuming that the duplicate job template would use the same Selection List Name.

Melissa, I am not sure I completely follow what you are saying, please correct me if I am wrong with any of the following. Also keep in mind that this is the first time I've tried creating a duplicate job templates.

1. When a selection list is created and assigned to a policy BE automatically associates a Duplicate template to the job regardless if you use it and is permanently associated with the job. Am I correct?

2. Is it safe to assume that the reason I am seeing "Duplicate Backup Set nnnn" is, because BE by default is assigning this name to the Selection List in the duplicate job?

I went into "Edit > Edit Selection Lists" and I see a bunch of Selection List names that are not used e.g. Restore nnnn and Duplicate Backup Set nnnn.

1. Is there a way to clean-up this list? I cannot tell what is what.
2. When I try to rename one of these Duplicate Backup Set nnnn it won't apply the name change after I click OK. Do you know if this is common?

Thank you for your help.

[Melissa_Winans]

> I was assuming that the duplicate job template would use
> the same Selection List Name.

BE's "rules of the game" decree that no two selection lists may have precisely the same name, even if they are of different types. For example, if your backup selection list is named "Green Frog", the associated duplication list must be at least one character different (for example, "Green Frog1"). In theory, one could delete the original Backup selection list and then create a new Duplicate selection list with the same name, but this would defeat the purpose of automating the duplication process.

> Melissa, I am not sure I completely follow what you
> are saying, please correct me if I am wrong with any
> of the following. Also keep in mind that this is the
> first time I've tried creating a duplicate job
> templates.

It took me a while to catch on too. Once I finally did, it made backup management a lot easier..

> 1. When a selection list is created and assigned to a
> policy BE automatically associates a Duplicate
> template to the job regardless if you use it and is
> permanently associated with the job. Am I correct?

Not quite. You have to create the Duplicate template yourself, working from within the policy setup window. What is created automatically is the selection lists that tell each Duplicate job based on that policy which backup sets to copy.

Here's an example: I might have a policy for a particular group of computers which includes two Backup templates, one for daily incrementals to disk and another for monthly fulls direct to tape. To archive the incrementals from disk to tape, I would create a Duplicate template within the same policy, specifying the incremental backup template as the source, and then create a rule linking the two jobs together and indicating the order in which they are to run. If I then associate this policy with a Backup selection list, three jobs are created, one each for the incremental backup, the full backup, and the duplication. The two backup jobs both use my original Backup selection list. Since the duplicate job is not backing up straight from the computer, but copying already existing backup sets, it needs a selection list of its own, which must have a different name. Rather than generating an entire new list every time the duplicate job is run, BE creates an empty list at the time that the job is first created, and then dynamically updates its contents as backups are run and subsequently duplicated.

> 2. Is it safe to assume that the reason I am seeing
> "Duplicate Backup Set nnnn" is, because BE by default
> is assigning this name to the Selection List in the
> duplicate job?

That is correct. Any selection list is given a default name when it is first created. In the case of Duplicate lists created by a policy, you don't ordinarily modify the selections yourself, so aren't necessarily aware of the name.

> I went into "Edit > Edit Selection Lists" and I see a
> bunch of Selection List names that are not used e.g.
> Restore nnnn and Duplicate Backup Set nnnn.
> 1. Is there a way to clean-up this list? I cannot
> tell what is what.

To permanently remove selection lists, use the "Edit > Delete Selection List" command. BE will throw up a warning message if the list is being used by a job. To just find out what job (if any) a list belongs to, try to edit it. If the list is being used by a job, you will get a warning message.

> 2. When I try to rename one of these Duplicate Backup
> Set nnnn it won't apply the name change after I click
> OK. Do you know if this is common?

That's what I get for trying to write complex responses from home, where I don't have the BE console to try things out on. It seemed reasonable at the time, since one can rename manually created Duplicate lists, but it seems that BE will not permit automatically generated Duplicate lists to be renamed. Oh well, it was a nice idea.

[Todd_Henry]

Melissa, kudos to you!

If I am ever in the University of Texas at Austin area I will be sure to look you up and buy you a drink! You have been a huge help with explaining this whole backup duplication process. It amazes me that no matter how many times you read the manual the human brain can process information differently e.g. What I considered correct in BE versus what you considered correct.

Scary thing is after reading this post several times, I think I understand everything you've outlined in regards to the duplicate backups. I think one of the problems I am experiencing is the duplicate job is running simultaneously while the original source is being created. Therefore no source data can be duplicated for the duplicate job.

This is what I was trying to accomplish:
1. We have an ERP system where we want full backups of the databases every night, M-Fri.
2. We want to backup the *.bak files to disk first and then write them to tape once

[Melissa_Winans]

> We currently run Differential backups M-Thur and do a
> week end full on Fri to tape. Now because I use a
> different Media Set on Friday I have to create
> another duplicate job based on the disk copy source.
>
> 1. Do you see a problem with linking two duplicate
> backup jobs to a single source?

It actually is possible to link multiple Duplicate templates to a single source Backup template, as long as the schedules do not overlap. However, I'm not certain that's what is needed in the situation you describe. If you do differential backups of the same set of files and folders on some days and fulls on other days, you have:

---One Backup selection list
---Two Backup templates (full and differential)
---Two sources to be duplicated - remember, in this context, "source" is synonymous with "Backup template"
--- Two Duplicate templates, one for each different media set you want to use

So in this case each Duplicate template would be linked to a different Backup template.