SSR 2013 Trial - VSS_E_INSUFFICIENT_STORAGE error

[KenIsaacson]

Just downloaded SSR 2013 trial. (I was a Ghost 15 user, but upgraded to Windows 8 so can no longer use Ghost.)

On my first attempt to do a backup of my drive, I got a VSS_E_INSUFFICIENT_STORAGE error. A bit of online research made me think I had to go to System Properties|System Protection and increase the amount of disk space available for system protection, which I did. I increased it from about 9GB to about 100GB.

That did not help.

FWIW, my hard drive is about 923GB, with about 760GB free.

Any guidance?

Many thanks.

Ken

[Andreas_Horlach]

As Tom and others have said, this is a Microsoft error caused by insufficient space on the volume being snapped by the Microsoft VSS framework. (Ghost 15 and SSR 2011 (and prior) used the Symantec VSS framework. SSR 2013 use MS VSS with MS recent improvements to VSS. Ironic, I know)

It's simple to duplicate the error: drag some files onto your System Reserved Partition so < 50Mb of freespace exists. Both SSR and Windows Backup will generate the same error in different formats:

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In addition to Tom's suggestions, there is another way. I resolved this issue with another customer. We simply removed the system reserved partition. (This partition is necessary if using BitLocker, which the customer was not). With the boot files on the same partition as the OS, there was plenty of space for VSS. I post these instructions only if whomever does this creates a COLD backup of the complete system first in case you get stuck and need to restore.... 

1. Boot from the Windows installation disk.

2. When you get to the language screen, press Shift+F10 to get to a COMMAND PROMPT.

3. Enter diskpart, then list disk after diskpart is loaded.

4. Enter select disk [Windows disk number].

5. Enter list partition

6. Enter select partition [system reserved partition number].

6. Enter delete partition override. The SRP is now gone.

7. Enter select partition [Windows partition from step 5], then enter active. This select the OS partition and sets it as ACTIVE.

8. Close the command prompt and reboot.

9. Boot back to the Windows installation disk and into the System Recovery Options screen using your retail Windows 7 installation disk or system repair disc.

10. Select the Startup Repair option.

11. Startup Repair will scan your computer to attempt to find and fix any startup problems. You may be  prompted to make choices as it tries to fix the problem. It might also restart your computer as it makes repairs. NOTE: You can click on the View diagnostic and repair details link to see a detailed summary of what Startup Repair has done.

12. Click on the Restart button. Windows should now boot. A check of Disk Management shows raw space where the SRP used to be:

[KenIsaacson]

Andy,

You're still apparently talking about Windows 7. Can we please re-focus the discussion to Windows 8, which is the OS I originally posted about?

How do we get Symantec to simply fix this darn thing so it works with Windows 8 Dell machines?

Thanks.

Ken

[piker21]

Ken that was a point I was trying to make. to shift from technical issues, to the core of the problem:

1-) Ghost worked. Ghost 15 worked well with windows 7.

2-) Windows 8 is out. Symantec introduces ssr 2013 for windows 8. otherwise, we would be using Ghost 15.

3-) with that being a fact: it is the responsibility of the software maker, Symantec, to adhere to the new code, and the way the operating system works. it is not microsoft's or yours and mine, to go through a misrable hell, to make this thing work. IT SHOULD HAVE WORKED OUT OF THE BOX. period.

4-) tech support have been so bad, I cant even describe the process without mouthing off.

5-) under the money back guarantee, i asked for a refund and cannt even get back a response by email or phone.

6-) may be the issue involves windows 8 structure + dell. so what? when you market a mass product to the public, the least we expect, is a complete test on the highest selling pc in the world. (yes dell, has 35% of the global market or better).

7-) knowing that this product was NEVER tested, is a serious issue.

I have a dell XPS 8500 and another all in one. both with windows 8 64, I7, 2 TB drives, and same partitions as everybody mentioned above. For the record, I tried every suggestion above, using diskpart, stopped system restore, looked up about everything in the services.msc, assign / remove drive letters, all that....no go. still have the same exact problem.

Today, I got  a call from Symantec tech support, (here in the US, go figure, they still have some)..and he said that it is an apparent symantec program coding issue and it is escalated now to R&D to address. (not to offend my indian friends, but the few hours I spent on the phone, slow pace, hold, and hold again, were seriously annoying). any way till then, will wait for either a refund, or solution which ever comes first. I prefer a refund with interest.

[tomaszec]

This sort of thing is nothing new to Dell and/or Microsoft.  That is, since the dawn of Windows releases to the public, the first year is frought with figuring things out.   Many of us have resisted and waited until the first service pack.  In this situation, Dell is really the one at fault here.   If they would have properly sized the hidden partition, a simple littel command can be issued and SSR 2013 would be working out of the box as you want.   I really don't think SSR 2013 is going to ever fix this for you.

Now,  you say you tried everything.  Did you successfully resize the partition?  I don't see that result anywhere in the dialogue.. I see that you don't want to purchase or download a 3rd party software solution to resolve the situation.  I can only say that you won't be able to fix it unless you do.    Did you try the other solution of trying to back it up from the recovery CD thus bypassing the VSS thing.   I suspect that you may still run into the Dell partition size issue, but i don't know.

Chris

[piker21]

Chris respectfully...

you are full of it. the question is WHY did your company (apparently) not test the product before selling it? and yes, Symantec did not ask me, or warn me, about the product BEFORE they took my money. therefore, it is their problem not dell or ms.  if you design a website, its getto work on ALL browsers, properly and effectively, so does your product. dell does what dell does, and it is your responsibility, to produce a product that works.

the problem is vss. yes. ghost used a separate engine. ssr2013 relies on windows VSS. apparently, symantec changed things, without fully adhering to the new code. when dell build a pc, they are working on platform that performs as described. and it did, out of the box. your excuses, are seriously ugly and uncalled for.

yes did do everything, but re-sizing, as you cannot do that in windows 8, without buying extra software, and I dont see why i should do that, after i spent $170 already on ssr2013, while, novabackup Professional 14.5, and StorageCraft's Shadow protect 5, work perfectly, (yes on dell, and any PC), for less than half the price?

myself and many others, went with symantec out of devotion over many years to teh product. and in return we get what? ugly and stupid ass comments. may be its dell+MS+mycat+thecolorofmywalls...

and its never symantec. how arrogant are you guys really???

[criley]

Today, I got  a call from Symantec tech support, (here in the US, go figure, they still have some)..and he said that it is an apparent symantec program coding issue and it is escalated now to R&D to address.

Can you please provide your case number?

[Andreas_Horlach]

(I don't think tomaszecis a Symantec employee)

If anyone with this problem is willing to do so, I'd like you to upload a backup of your Dell\SRP\Utility\etc. non-operating system partition(s) that seem to be generating these errors. As mentioned earlier, this can be done by booting to the System Recovery Disk and creating a backup from there. Ghost 15\SSR 2011 backups will also work. (I don't need your operating system or data partition). 

If you're willing, please send me a private message and I'll reply with the upload information. If you have an open Symantec case, please include that case # in your message.

[piker21]

first case number Case Number 04333350. somehow they mark my cases as closed??? it not me, and i dont know why. another is  04304908. may be you can track all the info from either case number. thanks for actually getting to this.

[GSevison]

FWIW I have the same exact problem as this thread poses, with a new Dell Laptop with Windows 8. I Cannot do an image backup, but can do limited file backups from single directories.

Error message is exactly the same as in the start of this thread.  15 days of attempted fixes and no workable results.

Just adding my voice to those indicating we can evaluate the product (I also have a trial to see if it will work, since I formerly used Ghost for many years, but of course Ghost 15 will not work with windows 8.

Just another note, when asked which products I use, there is no mention of this product, Symantec Recovery System 2013, so I checked Ghost.  Not effective since it looks like I will only get updates on a product I am not using and with which I have no problems. ;)

Thanking all of those who have worked on this problem, and await a fix before the trial period expires without a chance to even begin to evaluate the product.

Respectfully, and grateful to you all.

[criley]

04333350 - this is still open

04304908 - this is closed and appears to be for a different issue (cannot see volume C)

[Tom_Francis]

Amen to those waiting for a solution.  Same problem. I feel your pain.

All imaging programs seem to have warts... but I knew where they were in Ghost.

Now I have to decide between waiting for System Recovery to be fixed... or start trying other products that seem to work with Windows 8.

However, I need to get a backup in place for the Dell E5530 W8 x64 and deliver this system to an anxious customer...

Tom Francis

[JohnTech]

Tom,

I'm waiting for a fix from Symantec as well.  The consensus on this thread seems to be that it is NOT a Dell problem, and it is NOT a Microsoft VSS problem.

There are several alternatives suggested above  in this thread:

Other products that work with Windows 8 (and Dell) according to earlier postings:

Novabackup Professional 14.5

StorageCraft's Shadow protect 5

Note, I am also getting ready to test Paragon Disk Manager 12 Suite.  I've used their software on Windows 7 just fine, but haven't tested on Windows 8 yet.

Temporary workaround:

Boot from SSR 2013 System Recovery Disc and take a complete "cold" image backup.  Then in Windows 8 select ONLY the c: partition for "hot" image backups.

John

[Andreas_Horlach]

John - can you send me an image of the Dell and SRP partitions? Send me a private message and I'll give you upload details.

[JohnTech]

Andy H, the Windows 8 pc is at a remote location and I won't be there for a couple weeks so I can't create a cold image of those partitions.  Remember when I try to backup them under Windows 8, I get the VSS errors I have previously posted.  I plan to take cold images of all partitions when I'm there.  (Why doesn't Symantec just order a Dell XPS 8500?  You can get expedited delivery from Dell in a couple days.)

Additionally, however, a significant question is:  Why does SSR 2013 show only 4 partitions on the hard drive, whereas Windows Disk Manager shows 5 partitions?  See my screen prints which I previously posted that demonstrate this issue.  SSR 2013 obviously won't even attempt to backup a partition if it doesn't identify it.

John

[Andreas_Horlach]

Hi John - Thank you for doing that. We've also been working with Dell on this issue, and have crafted a preliminary technote. We're also working on getting hardware in-house. Until then, the cold images will be extremely helpful from customers. 

http://www.symantec.com/business/support/index?page=content&id=TECH206346

SSR 2013 is designed to show hidden drives (such as the Windows System Reserved Partition). However, in this case, the engineers are looking at these partitions and how to handle them.

What partition is not being shown in SSR, but is being shown in Windows Disk Management?

[JohnTech]

Andy,

Here are the screen prints, one from Disk Management, the other from SSR 2013.  Same pc.  I think the 500MB EFI System Partition is missing from SSR screen.

(Note I am using remote desktop to the pc, which is why I can't remotely create the cold image right now).

Also, both the PBR Image as well as the WINRETOOLS get the VSS errors when included in the backup.

Thanks for helping!

John

[piker21]

full back works perfect off of the ISO boot. with newer dells remeber to change the bios to enable the boot from legacy not EUFI. (must change back when done). of course that does not solve the issue, it is time consuming, and can never run backups on a schedule. however, given that I am running a dell XPS and Windows 8, we can conclude that SSR 2013, does not need windows VSC. it is structured to use it, but does not necessarily need it. thus, Symantec labs may take that into consideration, and change the process, and provide us with an update. ASAP I hope. note that i had no errors on any of teh partitions.

[JohnTech]

Thanks Piper21 for the report.

I have a further suggestion for Symantec:  Update (create) a better User Guide.  The current SSR 2013 User Guide is 309 pages long, yet it does not contain a single screen shot in all those pages.  It contains only 2 graphic diagrams (page 48 and 108).

The user (us) needs some sample scenarios as well, not just a text explanation of each option:

1. How to handle EUFI vs. Legacy BIOS.

2. How to handle restore of EFI Sytem Partition (or other hidden partitions).

3. How to handle backup/restore of OEM PC's (Dell, HP, Lenovo) that have secure boot or other locked partitions.  How to integrate for example, the Dell recovery partitions that you must use the Dell tool to backup, with Symantec backup/restore.

4. We need clear scenarios on how to get a COMPLETE hard drive backup of various PC's and then straightforward how to "restore it all" onto a new blank hard drive.

The customers reading these threads are most likely the more advanced ones, but I honestly can't see have an "average" pc user can use SSR 2013 to backup entire hard drive, then restore it to a new hard drive, after a physical failure.

Ghost 15 (and predessor versions) were fine when a hard drive consisted of just a C: partition, or a C: and D: NTFS partition.  But we're wayyyyy beyond that now.

I've experiened several war stories that I don't want to repeat here, of recovering after hard drive failures and then not being able to boot the result.  

If Symantec doesn't get ahead of these issues, then other vendors will (or have).

P.S. I submit the above comments in the honest hope that we will get some improved documentation and functuality that will help us help our customers to make SSR 2013 work.  Thanks for the soapbox.

[piker21]

JohnTech,

I believe the lack of documentation can be directly related to the fact that the product was not thoroughly tested as it should have been. when you do not know how the product works, if it works, you cannot lay out a user manual. I went hard on the support guys, although its not their fault to begin with, I was rather ANGRY not just upset. these guys (and gals), are trying to seek a solution just like the rest of us. its 2 poeple that are responsible and should be fired:

the lab manager who claimed the SSR ready for the market. and the executive that decided to sell it, without even requesting a test protocol and result documentation.

I need to mention that many of teh procedures mentioned in the thread, may have worked on windows 7, but will NOT on windows 8. (unless you buy a stack of various products to get it done). thus these suggestions are not that valuable, given that GHOST 15 works perfectly on windows 7, and it sells for 20 bucks on amazon. why pay more for SSR 2013 if you have windows 7?

I hope we keep all efforts on windows 8, (may be dell), and SSR 2013 working together.

to your point Johntech, you hit on a very serious note. Imagine, if the backup worked. and for some reason you cannot boot from a receovery disk after a crash? wow. (you hear that symantec?? )

[ravindra_teli]

Hi Tom,

Would it be possible for you to upload a snapshot view of your diskmgmt console and also SSR console snapshot (where you don't see the OEM partition for selection). We just wanted to double check that you are also getting 5 partitions in the factory built product.

Thanks,

Ravi