Snapshot-client?

[Magnifico]

I just want sector-level Windows operating-system backup. With ability to make incremental backups, use NTFS journals and make Windows system databases transactions quiescene like VSS does.
Is this possible with snapshot-client? In snapshot-client documentation there is not sayed is it file-level or sector-level backup. Example regular NetBackup backup is file-level.
There is many reasons why file-level backup is not reliable. Example some software write into exact sector, write into hidden place, defragmenter made some optimization, etc.
Example Windows VSS in-box writers list is here - http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/bb968827(v=vs.85).aspx#system_writer

[Mark_Solutions]

The functionality in NetBackup to do this is called Flashbackup-Windows

However this cannot be used on the system drive of the server i am afraid

The only process that does anything close to what you want is a VMWare backup where the systems drives vmdk file is backed up in that way

I cannot think of any other way of doing it using NetBackup.

There are other Symantec products that may be able to do it but not NetBackup - any drive but not the system drive

[Magnifico]

Why not system drive? Where is the restriction point, or where this restriction point locates, where is reason?  I dont want VMWare backup, just operating-syste. I can see the only reason can be in quiescene. If open-file service is smart enough to wait longer disk inactivity, then in theory there is also possible to make correct backup without quiescene. From other aspects there is no any differesnce in sector-level backup, is source operating-system drive or not, it just copies sectors and thats all. Incremental compares checksums and copies only changed sectors. Unfortuanately I dont know others Symantec sector-level products. BackupExec is plain file-level, Ghost is also file-level.

[Mark_Solutions]

You would have to ask the engineering team that i am afraid - I am just passing on what I know about NetBackup capabilities

Backup Exec System Recovery used to do something similar to what you want - not sure what it is called now if it still exists

[Marianne]

Please bear in mind that NBU does not have its own snapshot technology (It had VSP in older versions, but not anymore).  NBU uses Microsoft VSS for open file backup.

PS:

It seems that your Snapshot Client queries were answered in this post: https://www-secure.symantec.com/connect/forums/snapshot-client-0  and that this discussion has nothing to do with NBU Snapshot Client feature? 

[Magnifico]

Its very good news if it uses Microsoft VSS. Then I dont get why it cant make sector-level backup of Windows operating system with use of Flashbackup.

[Mark_Solutions]

Perhaps it will in the future but it doesn't at the moment

[Magnifico]

How it knows, contains some drive operating-system or not? Does it some test with data in drive?

[Magnifico]

If snapshot client uses Microsoft VSS, but not for operating-system backup, then for what reason it at all uses VSS? Only to make open-file backups from non-system drives?

[Mark_Solutions]

I think we have answered your original question - if you need deeper analysis you would need to raise a case with Symantec and see if engineering can provide such answers

VSS is use to capture open file and also the Shadow Copy Components during a standard type of backup

If can have other functions when it comes to backing up things such as Exchange databases

[Marianne]

This discussion is about Snapshot Client, of which FlashBackup is a part. Mark has covered that above.

Normal MS-Windows policy (with or without BMR) uses VSS for open file backup by default (which includes the system drive and Shadow Copy Components.
All of this is covered in NBU Admin Guide I, BMR manual and Snapshot Client manual.
You can find links to all NBU manuals in 'Handy NBU Links' in my signature.

[Magnifico]

VSS is not only open-file and shadow copy components service. There is also very important writers, as ActiveDirectory, Windows internal database writers etc. Without those components is not possible to make operating-system backups today. This backup, without those writers, becomes crash unconsistent or cold-reboot and operating system is broken after restore. Yes, about 20y ago there was first only open-file service, but as windows operating system becomes more complex and includes more internal databases, then additional writers become. Early days there was technique to wait long time before disk becomes idle. Now with VSS there all caches flushes and work is done by VSS. I have readed this Snapshot Client manual, but it is written by such a way that still there is no any useful information. Still I dont know what kind on open-file service it uses and what kind of quiescene it does. Probably this FlashBackup is sector-level backup, altough it is not written in documentation. But there is still nothing about is snapshot-client without FlashBackup file-level or sector-level. You just use software and nobody dont know even what it does.  

[Mark_Solutions]

I think we really have answered your questions but let me try again ...

VSS is built into Windows and NetBackup leverages it to do open files, Shadow Copy Components, exchange, AD backups etc.

Flashbackup also uses it to perform a block level backup of a disk. This also uses True Image Restore information to gather the data needed to perofrm individual file level restores from such a backup.

It also enables incremental backups using that technology.

There is a restriction on using flashbackup then you cannot use it on the System drive - you would need to ask the Symantec engineers exactly why that is the case.

I am curious why you need this information and what your connection with NetBackup is so perhaps you could let us know your position so that we know at what level we need to answer you.

I see that in 5 days and a few hours since joinging connect you have opened 7 (or was it 8) threads, one of which looks almost identical to this one, none of which have been marked as solved and all that seem very negative towards NetBackup.

It would help us to understand your involvement with the product so that we can give the answers you need - but many seem to be engineering questions and you will not get that level on here so you would need to open a support case

It would also help the connect community if, once you have had a question answered as best as possible, if you marked that thread using the "Mark as solution" option to close it off and assist others in the future looking for similar answers.

Thanks

[Magnifico]

Thank You. The last answer was more informational than whole snapshot-client documentation. Seems that unfortunately I cant use this snapshot for backing up operating system. Strange, for what this snapshot client is required then at all, because data is always better to backup in file-level (regular backup)......Interest to NetBackup 7.5 arises in me after I readed from some place about this new "acceleration". Today I make any kind of data backup with Ahsay, that also have delta-copy feature. Now I know only two software that can do file-level delta-copy backups. One is Ahsay and other is NetBackup. Operating systems I was backed up with R1Soft, that is sector-level backup. I readed about this snapshot and flashbackup, and they looks like sector-backups also. Now I find out, thanks to you, that I cant use it. My idea was to start using one software (NetBackup) instead of two different backup software. Thats the story. Yes, I can close this thread, as I get right answer, only I dont see any button to mark this thread "solution completed". Thanx. 

[Mark_Solutions · Accepted solution]

OK - NetBackup is an Enterprise Solution that can do Flash-Backup of any drive other than the system drive.

It can do client side -deduplication and accelerator backups on any drive, including the system drive and when 7.6 arrives it should be able to use it for VMware backups too.

To close a thread off you should see some text which says "Mark as solution" at the bottom of each comment, just click that.

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